IRC log started Wed Feb 16 00:00:01 2000 how do you define method inheritance? what do you do with the code? so the relationship between a message's corresponding method and receiver and parent of the method are two separate relations... and should just be denoted by two separate slots? 'parent' AND 'receiver'? [msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0216 it sounds like you're trying to differentiate between containership and inheritance hm i don't know whether that's a good thing or not it might very well be the idea that there is a 'parent' slot seems to confuse the whole matter :) as it is an implementation of cloning... what's an anti-clone? maybe the 'original' slot :) an anticlone is the prototype "that was me before i got slapped by a message" :) hehe you clone objects if they receive a message? that doesn't make sense well we allow for immutable objects oh the bmo handles it bmo? behavioral meta-object ah it implements the message-lookup and application the lookup part allows for accessors to be handled 12:10am oh, i put that stuff in the root object water: okay... other question, where exactly does scoping fit in? eihrul: not sure it *could* be done by cloning well, to borrow from witten, it's containership versus inheritance... you *do* mean block-style scoping, right? * eihrul/#tunes nods. hm ok not by cloning is fine well some method in the outer block object has to call another object contained by the block -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Read error to hcf[me-portland-us1041.javanet.com]: Connection reset by peer) -:- hcf_ [nef@me-portland-us211.javanet.com] has joined #tunes er inheritance of scope (containership) and inheritance while similar, don't quite go together -:- hcf_ is now known as hcf yeah i noticed well, okay, this is where my earlier idea was :) which idea was that? you have a receiver containing a method, and the method may also contain other block-scoped methods how would that work? just using a containment relationship held by some 'container' slot and by delegating to the 'container' my view of it just uses the beta idea if a particular slot was not present in 'self' but then beta isn't very robust multiple delegation then? yes... um not to mention the dreaded multiple inheritance lightly but its basically cloning a prototype method and the receiver * water/#tunes shivers into a globule of the two :) evil stuff yes, but you have two inheritance relations and just avoiding the matter seems to be complicating everything not sure two inheritance relations? maybe we should sleep on it and perhaps object reproduction needs to be more sexual than asexual :) oh god hey, its more intuitive! :) yeah sure 12:20am i can just see a language tutorial with the 'birds and bees' not many humans understand how to clone themselves, but they understand multiple inheritance :) witten: because you have your prototype relation, and inheritance of the scope enclosing another scope.... is the latter just containership? composition? witten: think lambda... actually you're reproduction is binary conjugation, not sexual s/you're/your/ close enough sure * water/#tunes is getting sleepy though it does bring up those certain, special questions... if an object inherits two slots with the same name... heh eiffel takes care of such cases via renaming... you just "select" the particular slot you want this is why i hate mi or that water: well perhaps there's some particularly more elegant way to resolve such conflicts? :) yeah rewriting but it's not compatible it's compatible in eiffel slate /= eiffel yeah ugh, 5 hours... have to go well it's possible to make it compatible yeah and break my language model bye eih sorry to argue so much was probably my fault, no worries -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving) besides dynamic inheritance is also possible 12:30am or inheritance by parts -:- SignOff witten: #TUNES (Ping timeout for witten[un.torsion.org]) well, good night hcf -:- water [water@tnt-10-142.tscnet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) 12:40am -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn80.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (brb) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn80.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn80.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn80.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- NetSplit: wang.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [03:41am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [wang.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: wang.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- Plundis [plundis@130.238.23.252] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn80.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smoke[16dyn80.delft.casema.net]) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn89.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- smokie [tw026024@zaalf16.twi.tudelft.nl] has joined #tunes -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-131-177.s177.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smokie: #TUNES (BitchX-75+Deb1an -- just do it.) -:- thomas [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes i keep hearing complaints about Common Lisp being ugly bloated tweaked and such, and Scheme being nice and clean and tidy.. how much of this is religion and what is to be taken serious? =\ I dunno... have no eksperience... 06:10am ah too bad 06:20am smoke: scheme isn't that clean, but what you heard about CLISP is true, at least in some sense smkl: so it would be stupid to dive any deeper into common lisp? smkl: thing is, i've done about 3 months of investigating all sorts of languages that I had never heard of before, and I'd like to start coding with one :-) Forth is probably the quickest... Clisp is good too, just stay away from C!!!! alonzo: forth scared me a way on first sight (if you believe in scaring at first sight), and I've been coding C and Pascal for about 10 years :) alonzo: basically i'm stuck with choosing between Scheme and Common Lisp ml-like languages don't seem very `practical' to me smoke: why not? what's so scarry about forth? smkl: i can't give a decent argumentation for that :( alonzo: the syntax to start with :) i find it hard to get a decent understanding of what kind of language would suit my needs well what do you need? smkl: a language that helps in programming instead of slows down development and irritates i liked the features of common lisp (the dynamic class ideas, no explicit typing (or whatever it has to be called)) and i also liked being able to mix compiled with non compiled code 06:40am so why don't you choose it then? i got scared about all the critique i hear about it being bloated and hackish :) probably i should just try to see how far i can come by with it, and then help with the experience to build another language 06:50am Gakuk smoke: cl is definitely useable, despite its shortcomings that is, if you don't do a lot of multiprogramming what is multiprogramming? (multiprocessor?) (although it's not worse than most other languages, for that) abi: multiprogramming? it has been said that multiprogramming is the ability to run multiple concurrent communicating programs at once. * Fare/#Tunes pats abi hum, does that also cover working on the same data on different locations? like editing a picture with two people over a network, for example.. my current goals are building simple yet powerful applications for stimulating creative work multiprogramming==ipc btw ? nope, although multiprogramming implies some kind of ipc multiple users does not always imply multiprogramming, although it gets really hairy if not and conversely, too * Fare/#Tunes plays "always look on the bright side of life" in a loop * Fare/#Tunes uses that OLD linux laptop as a terminal 07:00am * smoke/#tunes plays "oh why do i have to have this much trouble with my new videocard" smoke: bad karma. Get a new karma. better chance it's the chipset instead of the karma :) the karma implies the chipset what chipset, btw? Permedia2 -:- XeF4 [xef4@194.255.106.43] has joined #tunes i just got it for free from someone, so i could get back to my previous card, but that one was about twice as slow in blitting a 320x200 screen * Fare/#Tunes once returned a gw2k, among other things, because it had a permedia2. Got a DELL w/ a Mill2, instead, and was happy ow well the permedia is supported by a xfree86 3d labs driver, and that works fine, but after running the X server i can't run any svgalib programs anymore :( 07:10am so you can run svgalib programs before? How lucky you are! I forgot the taste of svgalib, long ago (not that it tasted that good, either) the new version is trying to fix the root permission problems by means of a /dev/svgalib_helper and a linux kernel module if you like watching demos in linux, there's no serious alternative :( 07:20am ggi? it has been said that ggi is at http://www.ggi-project.org fare: i'm using libggi yes i wholeheartidly agree that supporting ONLY svgalib is about as braindead as only a well known rich person could tell you to be 07:30am -:- SignOff XeF4: #TUNES (Hey! Where'd my controlling terminal go?) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us643.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh2-port161.snet.net] has joined #tunes mornin rares mornin DVD is going to get hit badly :) how so? * hcf/#tunes doesnt follow dvd news oh, the Hacker Stockholders Unite! item? dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu open source distributed strategy what we say gets picked up by the DeCSS defense 08:50am law rules! (or so we hope) 09:10am -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (hmz) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn89.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- smoke is now known as avoozl -:- avoozl is now known as smoke` -:- smoke` is now known as smoke -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (One day sheep will rule the world) -:- Kaufmann [newbie@dial423.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (kathyanne gets kick'd/ as leaves fall on still waters/ she is here no more.) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn89.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-11.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes (say "hello") om 12:00pm -:- SignOff rares: #TUNES (KVirc 1.0.0 Millennium BETA 3) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp133.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- pyro [tcn@cci-209150250071.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes -:- mibin [mibin@an1-437.tiscalinet.it] has joined #tunes who er, anyone here? yep? -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us123.javanet.com] has joined #tunes slow day :) how are things in Italy? -:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES (Ping timeout for mibin[an1-437.tiscalinet.it]) 02:40pm -:- mibin [mibin@an1-437.tiscalinet.it] has joined #tunes -:- ult [noone@user-38lc712.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes * Fufie/#tunes goes over to the small cages and releases three rabbits and wish them good luck oops, I just picked up the phone.. am I still here? yup :) -:- SignOff pyro: #TUNES (later) 03:10pm -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z!) -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Leaving) hohum 04:30pm * Fufie/#tunes picks up a rabbit and carries it gently back to the cage abi: sbcl? sbcl is Steel Bank Common Lisp at http://sbcl.sourceforge.net -:- KeLp [kelp@lerkim.go2net.com] has joined #tunes * Fufie/#tunes picks up a rabbit that has lost his way and carries him gently over to KeLp and hands him over.. Help this one, please right.... so how is tunes going? 04:50pm -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes it's like a bunny an energizer bunny keeps going and going and going and going.. * Fufie/#tunes picks up the last rabbit and goes to sleep wow mibin: que? :) is tunes developing that fast =) ? umm.. no.. the batteries just last for a long time :) lol have you heard of that new cell invented in padua? no 05:40pm oh well.. tell me tomorrow.. I head for bed om nite -:- KeLp [kelp@lerkim.go2net.com] has left #tunes [] 05:50pm -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us123.javanet.com]) -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp133.lvdi.net]) -:- mibin [mibin@an1-437.tiscalinet.it] has left #tunes [] -:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has joined #tunes -:- witten [witten@un.torsion.org] has left #tunes [] -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us926.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp02.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- SlayR [julio@c2-1e144.neo.rr.com] has joined #tunes -:- SlayR [julio@c2-1e144.neo.rr.com] has left #tunes [] -:- lar1 [larman@1Cust26.tnt26.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fufie[tunnel-44-11.vpn.uib.no]) -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-11.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Read error to lar1[1Cust26.tnt26.sfo3.da.uu.net]: Connection reset by peer) -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh3-port51.snet.net] has joined #tunes -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh3-port51.snet.net] has left #tunes [Segmentation] -:- SignOff air: #TUNES (http://www.qzx.com/ :: sleep) -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp034.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp034.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) -:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fufie[tunnel-44-11.vpn.uib.no]) -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-11.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (dying by hcf's request) [msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0217 IRC log ended Thu Feb 17 00:00:00 2000