IRC log started Wed Jan 26 00:00:01 2000
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0126
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<Downix> ok, I have a q. for the tunes project
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!king.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 4 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr.
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-:- Topic for #tunes: TUNES, Free Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org> || slate <http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-home.html> || dopl <http://users.erols.com/ziring/dopl.html> || pl xref <http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/9731/xref.html>  ||  #osdev please for non-tunes related discussion
-:- topic set by lar1 [Sun Jan 23 14:24:32 2000]
-:- [Users(#tunes:10)] 
[ TUNES     ] [ Downix    ] [ smoke     ] [ strlen    ] [ ree       ] 
[ Zhivago   ] [ zarq      ] [ Fufie     ] [ abi       ] [ Fare      ] 
-:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999
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<Downix> so is anyone awake?
02:40am
<Fufie> barely
<Downix> Well, the review subproject, looking at it, is not very thurough.  While yes, it has a lot of stuff, there's little information about it on the tunes site.  I was thinking, why not expand on it, make a database about all of the files, and set it up where you can cross-reference it all
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<ree> hey all
<Downix> hey ree
<ree> hey downix
<Downix> what is up?
<ree> sky I think
<ree> heh
<Downix> hehe
<ree> programming =)
* Downix/#tunes is pondering ways to make the review subproject more thurough
<ree> neat
<Downix> Turn it from a basic review into an in-depth study
<ree> so how is tunes going
<ree> I notice that there is no real coordinated attempt at developing software yet
02:50am
<Downix> Well, about normal (can't say spinning wheels, noone's started the motor yet)
<ree> mainly philosohpy
<Downix> I know, it's sad
<ree> phy
<Downix> Actually, the philosophy is producing quite a few OS's
<ree> yeah
<Downix> BRiX, Clementine to name two
<ree> heh, brix is a microkernel oop approach
* Downix/#tunes nods
<Downix> with a hardware-independent programming model
<ree> yeah
<ree> in a way every approach makes sense
<ree> as long as it has a function
* Downix/#tunes nods
<Downix> But, as a hardware designer, I see merits in some approaches over others
<ree> yeah
<ree> I don't care for abstract approaches
<ree> I think the only level of abstraction should be in the user environment
<ree> not the entire operating system
* Downix/#tunes shrugs
<ree> but I guess the latest craze has been for uniform approaches
<Downix> I really am not concerned with that
<Downix> I am concerned with how things tie in with my hardware
<ree> yeah
<ree> how is that going?
<ree> find a ceo yet?
<Downix> Yes, we have a new CEO, named Pamela Hutchins
<ree> ahh, female
<Downix> Now we need a new name
* Downix/#tunes nods
<ree> try Pamela Lee
<ree> maybe that'd be even better hehe
<ree> it'd fit in with the rest of the company =)
<Downix> hehe, uh, no
<ree> j/k
<ree> what's the current company's name?
<Downix> We were going to go with Anubis Development, Inc
<Downix> but we found a company in Maryland named the Anubis Development Group
<ree> hah, geez
<Downix> Yup
<ree> yeah, awhile ago I was going to name a os project of mine mepha
03:00am
<ree> found some drug company named mepha
<Downix> fun, huh?
<ree> yeah
<Downix> So now we need a new name
<ree> maybe name it after some plant or bird
<Downix> Find one that's not taken
<Downix> Even the lowly Ibis is taken
<ree> heh, very true
<ree> I'm starting a open source software development project
<ree> all the software will run under one name luckily
<ree> with just suitable binary names
<Downix> hmm, ok
* Downix/#tunes shrugs
<Downix> what is the ABI?
<abi> it has been said that the i am the little girl borg with a big brain or #tunes' infoslut
<Downix> not you abi
<ree> abi?
<abi> ree?
<Downix> ABI == Application Binary Interface
<Downix> namely, what kind of binaries will it run
<ree> ahh
<ree> well, there will be a operating system project
<Downix> ok
<Downix> which CPU will it be for?
<ree> but the software itself will use a programming kit that will be ported to various systems
<Downix> ok
<ree> so basically any cpu/os
<Fufie> downix: there has been talk about moving review into a db
<Fufie> downix: as for in-depth.. I hack code and usually dislike writing text ;)
<ree> working on the assembler part of it presently
<ree> http://twisted.goodnet.com
<Downix> Fufie:  I am a freelance magazine writer, I'd be happy to do that
<Fufie> downix: find a part of the review you're not happy with, and mail stuff to review@ and someone will add it
<Downix> ok
* Downix/#tunes would be willing to write up a review on every OS on there, but give me time
<smoke> a lot of links on the user interface review page are broken :(
* Downix/#tunes nods, I know
<Fufie> smoke: can you mail a list on which links are broken on the ui page?
<Downix> ree:  Hold on
<smoke> fufie: of course. i'll do that right away
03:10am
<Downix> ree:  Which ASM you using?
<ree> well, it will have its own assembler
<Downix> ok
<ree> a hybrid between at&t and intel
<Downix> I ment which CPU at first
<ree> ahh
<Downix> ok, Intel
<ree> x86 for now
* Downix/#tunes nods, alright
<Fufie> if people post stuff to review@ often it is easier to do something about it because you see that other people care and actually use/read it
* Downix/#tunes nods
<ree> as you can see I just started work on the site
<Downix> Yeah
<smoke> what does [MIA] mean?
<Downix> Missing in Action?
<smoke> ah yes
<Downix> ok
<smoke> well those links would better be removed altogether imho
* Downix/#tunes nods
03:20am
<ree> btw, I do own dist.net
<ree> just damn network solutions 
<Downix> hehe
<Downix> I know
<ree> good luck with finding a name
<ree> that can be very hard
<ree> I didn't make up a acronym for dist until recently
<ree> I was going to do something like distributed networking
* Downix/#tunes nods
<ree> I stretched it a little heh
<Downix> hehe, ok
<ree> later
<Downix> see ya
03:30am
<smoke> review@tunes.org?
03:40am
<Fufie> yup
<smoke> sent.
<smoke> any ideas as to how Core's Clementine is coming along btw?
<Downix> It boots and runs heretic so I've seen
<smoke> is it available for testing already then?
<Downix> Only for those who are evaluating it
<Downix> I'm evaluating it for possible inclusion with my hardware
03:50am
<Downix> gotta go all
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* smoke/#tunes should think up a story about hardware too
<smoke> :]
04:00am
<Fufie> (setq *frustrated* t)
04:50am
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<Hal> Hello. How is your project going?
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<Hal_> Hello. How is your project going?
<abi> i already had it that way, Hal_.
<Hal_> Hmmm... My irc-client acts strange...
<Fufie> the tunes project?
<abi> the tunes project is helping me decide what I need for an OS for it
05:10am
<Hal_> Fufie: yes.
<Hal_> I used to call myself Crimson and visited this channel quite frequently last summer. I wonder what has happened since.
<Fufie> not a lot I guess
<Hal_> Ok...
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<Hal_> Our project has grown quite a lot. Have you heard about chaos?
<Fufie> no.. I'm new
05:20am
<smoke> hal: http://www.chaosdev.net/ ?
<Fufie> does that url work?
<smoke> every now and then it does
<Hal_> smoke: www.chaosdev.org
<Hal_> Our webserver has been down for a while.
<smoke> i think 640x480x16 can not be chained
<Hal_> Unfortunately, there is nothing to download for the moment.
<smoke> but why does it have to be chained?
<smoke> oh wait i should discuss that in #osdev?
<Hal_> smoke: I just want it to be linear, thats all.
<Hal_> smoke: osdev?
<Hal_> smoke: ok, lets take it in #osdev...
05:30am
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<Plundis> whee..
05:40am
<Fufie> (setq *frustrated* nil)
<smoke> :)
<smoke> will it come and collect it as garbage once a value is nil?
<smoke> i couldn't find a way to `release' a variable easily
<Fufie> the garbage collectors only come on mondays
<Fufie> but I have to do manual garbage collecting within my house
<smoke> do good cl implementations have fine grained control over the garbage collecting btw?
<smoke> where `fine grained' should be replaced by the appropriate wording
<Fufie> check the gc.htm included with ACL and the similar file in harlequin
<Fufie> it has a lot of things one can configure at least
<smoke> for example, for some applications i'd like the gc-ing to `spread' out over little intervals of cpu hoggage
<smoke> aha
<smoke> once again i'm pushed towards acl
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<Fufie> at least for reading the document 
05:50am
<Fufie> after all you asked how gc was done in implementations :p
<smoke> yes
<smoke> and of course i was hoping for the Right Answer without having to do all the dirty work myself :)))
<Fufie> it's a good document :p
<smoke> i've downloaded squeak btw
<smoke> i'm still traveling through the land of forgotten programming languages
<smoke> Welcome to the Association of Christian Librarians Website
06:00am
<Fufie> hmm
<smoke> hm squeak is weird. who'd want freely rotating widgets and windows?
06:10am
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<Kaufmann`> what's up?
<Fufie> just problems
<Fufie> happiness is down
09:50am
<Kaufmann`> maybe, but then again, you live near Sweden... and we all know how happy people are at Sweden :)
<Fufie> are the swedes happy?
<Fufie> I have always thought they were grumpy ;)
<Kaufmann`> my point exactly
<Kaufmann`> it has held the highest suicide rate in the world for as long as I know
<Fufie> hmm
<Fufie> didn't know that
10:00am
<Kaufmann`> of course, the clever fundamentalist will be glad to point out that this is correlated to the high atheism rate... and that all the Swedes who committed the capital sin of self-murder will surely go to hell. :)
<Kaufmann`> that's assuming, of course, that there's such a thing as a clever fundamentalist.
<Fufie> why would an atheist kill herself?
<Fufie> an atheist should be pretty sure that after a suicide she won't go to heaven
<Fufie> but then again.. we're talking about _swedish_ atheists
<Kaufmann`> heh, yeah
<Kaufmann`> maybe they're the "anything is better than _this_, even non-existence" crows
<Kaufmann`> s/crows/crowd/
10:10am
<Fufie> maybe we should postpone this till bineng is here :)
<Kaufmann`> heh
<Kaufmann`> I saw a post by him on the GameSpy forum today... re. that schmuck Tim Sweeney.
<Fufie> I don't think one should be so hard on Tim
<Kaufmann`> why not?
<Fufie> after all.. we should be happy that someone thinks in the gaming crowd
<Fufie> he hasn't found the holy grail yet, but he seems to be searching
<Fufie> I for one believe that the searching is good
<Fufie> I've been there
<Kaufmann`> I guess
<Fufie> and flaming will not help
<Fufie> the best way to help searchers is to show them the Better Way 
<Fufie> preferrably through code
<Fufie> and apps
<Kaufmann`> to my credit, I didn't flame him
<Kaufmann`> I'm just nasty by nature. :)
<Fufie> if we want things to change we should at least be civil and nice when trying.. 
<Fufie> I just skimmed his article and it seemed really familiar
<Fufie> I was there a few years back myself
<Fufie> basically saying the same stuff
<Kaufmann`> for how long have you been working with Lisp?
<Fufie> I have been working seriously with lisp for a year
<Fufie> tested it some earlier, gotten the feel of it, etc
<Kaufmann`> by the way, what is it that you work on again?
<Fufie> several projects :)
<Kaufmann`> but... uhrm, "officially"
<Fufie> a software development framework (sds) and a hypermedia system mainly
<Kaufmann`> as in "commissioned"
<Fufie> and I hack java code for money (a web browser)
<Kaufmann`> ah, right
<Kaufmann`> I remembered now
<Kaufmann`> (my current Karma is 43, by the way :))
10:20am
<Fufie> I think I am around 12
<Fufie> but I post very seldom
<Fufie> as for /. it has a sensationalist feel and an atmosphere where flaming is encouraged
<Kaufmann`> I agree
<Fufie> as for educating people.. that takes time and effort
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<Fufie> people don't jump on the FP/lisp/metaprogramming bandwagon because someone tells them to
<Fufie> or flames them for not jumping onto it
<Kaufmann`> I guess
10:30am
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<Kaufmann`> _Finally_, I've been able to get some work done on MIND
<Fufie> mind?
<abi> i heard mind was Not Delphi, Kaufmann's project for a modular IDE/project management system in Perl.
<Kaufmann`> yep
<Kaufmann`> The back-end is about 30% done.
<Kaufmann`> Of course, this is only the bootstrap.
<Kaufmann`> Once I complete MIND, I'll rewrite the entire codebase using itself.
11:20am
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<Kaufmann`> Okay, the MIND back-end is now about 60% done.
12:10pm
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<poplar> -;)))))))))))))) бляха этот  тюнес тянет на 2 --------------
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<Kaufmann`> aiirgh
<Kaufmann`> what the hell is the matter with you?!?
<poplar> парни тут кто нибуть говарит по русски?
<poplar> мабуть нет -ж)
12:20pm
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<poplar> Ау-ау-ау !!!!!! кто нибуть меня слышить?
<Fufie> how nice
<Fufie> can you provide us with ascii as well?
<AlonzoTG> om
<AlonzoTG> hmm, named after a tree.
12:30pm
<poplar> Sie ist линуХоиды?
<Fufie> some german.. now we're getting somewhere
<poplar> My charsets koi8-r and iso8859-5
<poplar> I'm not german -;)
<Fufie> "Sie ist" is german for "She is"
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<poplar> Ну и что
<Downix> hey-lo all
12:40pm
<poplar> Хаю-на всем <= hi all -;)
<Fufie> use us-ascii or iso8859-1 please
<poplar> Ok
<Downix> what was that poplar?
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<poplar> Идеот Я не что, а кто
<Downix> In us-ascii or iso8859-1 please
<Kaufmann`> OK, WTF is error type 2?!?
<Kaufmann`> God damn it.
<Downix> Kaufmann`:  depends on the situation.
* Kaufmann`/#tunes shoots Netscape in the head
<poplar> ╟ эчжуБ р Бпзчы зчтуЮчрзу -ж))))))))
<Kaufmann`> On a Crapintosh
<Kaufmann`> I /thought/ it was a memory error
<Downix> no idea
* Downix/#tunes places poplar on his ignore list
<Kaufmann`> I increased the RAM by almost 100%, and it kept crashing
<Kaufmann`> well, in the spirit of "What Would MarcA Do?", I'll reboot and see what happens.
<Downix> ;p;
<Downix> lol
<Kaufmann`> BRB
<poplar> alles auf poplar
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12:50pm
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* Fufie/#tunes jumps in joy
<Fufie> that bug took my six or seven hours to find
<eihrul> heh
<eihrul> what caused it?
<Fufie> I had forgotten to redefine a function that checked if a certain variable was defined
<Fufie> hacking on a javascript engine
<eihrul> eeew...
01:50pm
<AlonzoTG> om
* AlonzoTG/#tunes looks at the w2k sysreqs
* AlonzoTG/#tunes barfs
<Fufie> what is the sysreqs?
<Fufie> a pII, 32 meg ram, 300mb disk?
<ree> read www.winmag.com's win2k article
<Fufie> I won't use win2k anyway so I don't really care
02:00pm
<ree> same here
<AlonzoTG> 64mb...
<AlonzoTG> 2 gb disk...
<AlonzoTG> =P
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02:10pm
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* Fufie/#tunes yaaaawns
<eihrul> eh?
* AlonzoTG/#tunes left clicks on eihrul
<Fufie> looong day
03:40pm
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<rares> abi seen downix
<abi> downix was last seen on IRC 3 hours, 19 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying: lol [Wed Jan 26 12:46:21 2000]
<rares> famous last words
04:10pm
<rares> abi seen discussion?
<abi> I haven't seen 'discussion', rares
04:50pm
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[msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0127
IRC log ended Thu Jan 27 00:00:01 2000