IRC log started Thu Dec 16 00:00:01 1999
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[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1216
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<Downix> ok, back
01:30am
<Fufie> morning
* Downix/#tunes is feeling great
<Downix> My best friend sent me a few new pictures of her
<Downix> Wanna see?
01:40am
<Fufie> ehh
<Fufie> should I?
<Downix> sure
<Downix> if you like pseuto-art photos her boyfriend took
<Fufie> some photo-training wouldn't hurt the pictures
<Fufie> fair idea though
* Downix/#tunes nods
<Downix> I have a better photo of her face
<Downix> still not great tho
<Downix> would be better if her scanner worked right
<Fufie> it's really snowing today.. horrible
<Downix> send it this way
<Downix> Maybe the McCain bus will flip over!
<Downix> 8)
<Fufie> hmm.. hopefully I have some breakfast downstairs or I'll have to go outside to get food
<Downix> Ok
<Downix> What do you think?
* Downix/#tunes thinks her boyfriend needs a new career
<Fufie> I don't think this early in the morning
<Downix> hehe
<Downix> Her boyfriend is a photographer
01:50am
<Downix> Anyways
* Downix/#tunes sighs
<Downix> I got 10 of them
<Downix> 8)
<Fufie> just sent a mail to my colleague that I won't come to work today unless it stops snowing
* Downix/#tunes nods
<Downix> I have to be to work regardless
<Fufie> I have a T1 so I can work from home
<Downix> nice
<Downix> can I have one?  hehe
<Downix> I really need my company going
<Fufie> if you're good enough you can put a T1 in your job contract
<Downix> I'm a founding partner for the firm
<Downix> Not a large firm tho
<Downix> my "Job COntract" is that I can't leave the firm unless fired by a majority vote of the board
<Downix> 8)
02:00am
<Downix> But my stock options are nice
<Fufie> I guess
<Downix> 8)
<Fufie> VC takes 60%, and the rest is for the founders?
<Downix> Well, we don't have a VC yet
<Downix> but we are planning for a 40% equity stake to them
<Downix> and 20% to the employees
<Fufie> need to go out in the snow and buy breakfast.. bbl
<Downix> ok
<Downix> 80
<Downix> 8)
02:10am
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<Fufie> tmf: snowy outside
03:00am
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* zarq/#tunes is back from being away: trug
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* Fufie/#tunes dislikes Sin more and more
<Fare> Sin?
<Fare> the makers of SpyrcStations?
<Fufie> yes
<Fufie> Scott "Wannabe Bill" McNealy and &co
<Fufie> http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2407961,00.html
<Fufie> they now want royalties for java products.. and start with the enterprises.. expect jini to be the next on the list
<Fare> Goodbye, Java! Hello, OCAML!
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06:30am
<tmf> yepp, snow is nice, but it appears to be melting :|
<Fufie> good.. though if it turns cold during the night it will be dangerous need roads
<tmf> it probably will
<Fufie> s/need/near/
<Fufie> tmf: do you think either the norwegian or swedish government will fall?
06:40am
<tmf> ?
<Fufie> over the telianor thing
<Fufie> and telianor is now history.. 
<Fufie> was declared today by the government
<tmf> don't know. But I like the merge to fail, and produce a hostile competitive environment with loooow prices
<tmf> glad to hear that, I guess
06:50am
<Fufie> I don't know
<Fufie> I hate telia and telenor, but they might have earned a lot of money together when going abrowad and creating work here in Norway
07:00am
<Fare> what's telianor?
<Fare> local telco?
<tmf> its an alliance between the former government controlled tele companies in Sweden and Norway
<tmf> they're having serious problems
07:10am
<Fufie> as for more serious problems.. russian forces promise that they will take groznyj in a few days.. just like they did exactly five years ago.. 
<Fufie> expect to see coffins.. a lot of them.. over a hundred russian soldiers died yesterday 
<Fufie> the chechen version claims that 350 russian soldiers died in that attack and five chechens
07:20am
<Fare> Fufie: ouch
<Fare> Fufie: what are they fighting over, already?
07:30am
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* Fufie/#tunes yawns..
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* Fufie/#tunes is in a good mood.. finally getting work done on his thesis and PLOB works very well now :)
<Fare> Fufie: I envy you!
<Fare> Fuf: what's your thesis about?
<Fufie> aop and hypermedia systems
11:00am
<Fufie> and in a way also adaptive systems.. it's hard to separate aop, adaptive systems and reflective systems :)
<Fare> Fuf: can you add relevant pointers to the tunes review site?
<Fufie> there is just a boring page at http://s14.yi.org/  I'll start writing an article next year
<Fare> "next year"?
<Fare> :)
11:10am
<Fufie> I have two other articles, they're in norwegian.. not too helpful for a wider audience :)  
<Fufie> as for next year.. why not.. I might be saved by the end of the world as we know it and I would (still) feel fine :)
<Fufie> (ack, now I must go and find that cd :)
11:20am
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<hcf> abi: xfs is SGI's open source'd 64bit journaling filesystem at http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/
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12:30pm
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<binEng> Good day
<hcf> hi
<binEng> Any experience with Pliant?
12:40pm
<hcf> not i
<binEng> k
<hcf> perhaps Fare or water do
<binEng> just wondering if it's worth checking out
<hcf> sure
<Fare> bE: no particular experience with it, apart running it
<binEng> Fare: ah, so whadda think? interesting?
<Fare> sure
<Fare> perhaps not enough theory at times, but quite a nice hack
<binEng> I'll see for myself, then.
12:50pm
<binEng> integers of arbitrary size and still faster than C? Gimme a break.
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<binEng> avanti: Hi. Grew tired of your nick?
<avanti> heh
-:- avanti is now known as mibin
<mibin> 'lo binEng
<binEng> heeello.
01:00pm
<mibin> my newish nick as already been stolen in efnet
<mibin> has*
<binEng> :P
<smkl> AvAnTi (CoOoL@193.188.143.125 ircname  : Hatha Hawa Nafsee oo Hatha gedurha
<mibin> heh
<mibin> do you have a clue about the meaning of the ircname string?
<binEng> Heh, no idea :)
<binEng> Swahili?
<mibin> huh?
<mibin> hmm*
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01:10pm
<Fufie> what is wrong with the mibin nick?
<mibin> nothing i hope
<Fufie> why the nick change?
<mibin> hmm, i dont really know
<mibin> how about your nick
* binEng/#tunes is away
01:40pm
<Fufie> I took my nick because I am really a transvestite and needed a name when I worked in a sleazy bar in Panama.. Fufie was acceptable in that environment :)
<mibin> haha
<mibin> fufi was the name of my 'little' cat
<Fufie> :)
<Fufie> was it a cute cat? 
<mibin> sure
<mibin> and also i grow it up rather violent
<Fufie> I could be quite violent in my 'bedroom' in that bar in Panama.. if you ever go to Panama City, you should visit 'Miguel's Bar and Brothel' :)
<mibin> ok, lemme write that name down
<Fufie> if Bambi still works there, say 'hi' from me and tell her that computer science is fun but poorly paid compared to the bar :)
<mibin> heh, okay, if i'll ever go to Panama
01:50pm
<Fufie> horrible place
<Fufie> too many mosquitos, drunk sailors and soldiers
<mibin> another hostile environment
<Fufie> and not least.. lousy connection to the net
<Fufie> it's much better at gay and transvestite bars in Norway 
<mibin> bah
<mibin> =)
02:00pm
<mibin> do you go often to those bars?
02:10pm
<Fufie> no, I have an image to maintain these days.. hard-core computer geeks don't hang around in such places :)
<mibin> that kinda makes me feel better
<Fufie> but then again, some make-up, a tight dress and a wig and noone knows I am me ;)
02:40pm
<mibin> what an alter ego ...
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<hcf> hi eihrul
<eihrul> lo
02:50pm
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<Kaufmann> Shalom!
<eihrul> hola
03:40pm
<Kaufmann> so what's up?
<Kaufmann> Beta out yet?
<eihrul> eh?
<Kaufmann> nuthin'
<Kaufmann> it's only funny when Fare's listening
<Kaufmann> oh boy
<Fufie> hi kaufie
<Fufie> how is your new job treating you?
<Kaufmann> I'm working with C++/CORBA. What do you think?
<Fufie> the c++ part sounds horrible
<Kaufmann> Seriously, it's a very nice place to work at, smart people, I've got my own workstation (and I don't have to do admin work AT ALL!), and the ORB we're using is actually decent
03:50pm
<Kaufmann> Anyway, I just have to prove myself useful, and then I'll get more time to work on my own crazy projects.
<eihrul> well, what exactly are you doing with c++/corba?
* eihrul/#tunes ponders why a research institution bothers with that stuff.
<Kaufmann> I'd hope for us to get this specific project done soon, but based on my previous experience with C++, that doesn't seem very likely
<Fufie> write a c++ code-generator in CL :)=
<Kaufmann> eihrul, quite simple. Officially, I'm at the Fluid Dynamics Lab, and they've got a whole bunch of real-time simulation software written in C, C++ and Fortran that they want to hack so that it supports remote collaboration. And they've decided that CORBA is the way to do it.
<eihrul> its not quite as bad as BSD sockets atleast
<Kaufmann> Because there are only X people in the world that are involved with fluid dynamics research, and most of them are nowhere near Brazil. So they want people working on different parts of the world to be able to run the same simulation, /in real time/. Expensive groupware.
<Fufie> sounds like a sane technology choice to me
<Fufie> except for the c++ part ;)
<eihrul> well, legacy code, man
<eihrul> it hurts, sometimes
<Kaufmann> Well, yeah
<Kaufmann> At least it's good code, and we've got full sources... they've already done this to some of the non-real-time software, and it turned out OK.
04:00pm
<eihrul> heh
<Kaufmann> And the best feature is that it's a scholarship - i.e., I'm not an employee per se. This means that they don't care much about what I do, as long as I stay productive. So come January, when the course season starts, I'll get free time to attend them.
<eihrul> lucky
<Kaufmann> God damn it - why is it that every window manager hacker around seems to care more about pretty colours and 10MB background images than they do about real functionality?
<zarq> damn there is a lot of info on security on the net
<Fufie> security shouldn't be needed
<zarq> i know
<Fufie> people should trust each other
<zarq> but you can't trust people nowadays
<Kaufmann> tsc
04:10pm
<eihrul> Kaufmann: blackbox is nice
<eihrul> twm is also nice
<Kaufmann> url?
<Kaufmann> what do you mean by "nice"?
<hcf> blockbox is at http://blackbox.alug.org/
<zarq> abi; nsa?
<eihrul> Kaufmann: as in its small and very functional
<Kaufmann> and not bogus?
<eihrul> and still manages to look better than twm
<Kaufmann> but I guess that being an UNIX-hater, I'll always find flaws everywhere
<Fufie> you did get a UNIX workstation I hope
<hcf> abi: perlwm?
<abi> perlwm is at http://ucsub.colorado.edu/~kominek/perlwm/
<hcf> Kaufmann: there u go ;)
<Kaufmann> Fufie, yes
<Kaufmann> Fufie, there's no way in hell I'm going to sit in front of a Windoze box all day
<Fufie> no.. with c++ _and_ windows they might have just sent you into amazonas to dig for gold instead
<Fufie> :)
<Kaufmann> LOL Fufie
<eihrul> perlwm?
<abi> hmmm... perlwm is at http://ucsub.colorado.edu/~kominek/perlwm/
<eihrul> isn't that a little excessive for a wm?
04:20pm
<Kaufmann> what?
<eihrul> perlwm
<Kaufmann> why's that?
<eihrul> well, its a window manager
<eihrul> not perlmacs 
<Fufie> mv perl* /dev/null
<Kaufmann> Fufie, don't say that
<Kaufmann> I like Perl.
<Kaufmann> It's a very expressive language. Behold:
<Kaufmann> @hash{@arr1,@arr2} = (2) x @{[@arr1,@arr2]}; map { $hash{$_}-- } (@arr1,@arr2); @foo = grep { !$hash{$_} } keys %hash;
<eihrul> so is line noise
<eihrul> which very much resembles perl i might add
<Kaufmann> indeed
<Fufie> line noise can be readable
<Kaufmann> but it has an elegance of its own
<eihrul> Fufie: good point
<Kaufmann> reading the above is quite easy
<hcf> abi: perlmacs is at http://john-edwin-tobey.org/perlmacs/
04:30pm
<eihrul> hey
<eihrul> someone stole that name from me!
<Fufie> probably mr john edwin tobey
<Fufie> just a guess
-:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES ( <k!14>)
* eihrul/#tunes nods.
<eihrul> but who exactly is that?
<Fufie> don't know.. sounds english
<Fare> pphew!
* Fare/#Tunes spent too much time re-making enhancing his Bastiat page
<Kaufmann> hey, Faré
<Kaufmann> what's up?
<Fare> time is up
04:40pm
<eihrul> no it isn't
<eihrul> time is everywhere
<smkl> time will overflow at new year and we'll be at year -3254765324365
<Fufie> time is a four letter word
<eihrul> negative numbers are much cooler anyway
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<Fufie> I always like the number 49
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<Fufie> like/liked
<Kaufmann> ?
<eihrul> 7 * 7... twice the luck
<eihrul> or luck squared
04:50pm
<Kaufmann> nu?
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05:00pm
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* zarq/#tunes is away: zzz
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<water> cool. adobe apps on linux
06:40pm
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<water> hey air
<eihrul> abi: seen core
<abi> core was last seen on IRC 1 days, 5 hours, 7 minutes and 26 seconds ago, saying: heheh :) [Wed Dec 15 13:38:47 1999]
<air> oh great, now my email address is listed at arin.net for all to see
06:50pm
<eihrul> worst that can happen is you get spammed
<air> uhh ya
<air> thats the only thing that will happen
<air> i already get spam cuz my address is on internic
07:00pm
<eihrul> i get weird spam as well... and i don't know how everyone keeps getting my email address
<eihrul> perhaps a web spider ran over one of mailing lists i post to?
<air> spammers subscribe to mailing lists to get address
<air> they also have spiders read mailing list archives
<eihrul> evil
<air> yes they are
<eihrul> no... i do not want web hosting
<eihrul> no... i don't want to get rich quick
<air> hopefully aol suing them will stop some spam
<eihrul> no... i can't unsubscribe from your mass mails if you don't tell me how
<eihrul> :)
<air> haha
<air> no... i dont want my website listed in 500 search engines :)
<eihrul> if you unsubscribe, does it even do any good?
<eihrul> their spider will probably just pick you up again later
<air> yes it tells them that yer email address does indeed work and they can keep it on their list :)
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<eihrul> hey yoo
<ultima> hiya
<ultima> I beat q3a today
<eihrul> and?
<abi> zero
<water> ultima!!
<ultima> Well...its a decent game...great engine.
<water> how's it going?
-:- air has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: http://www.qzx.com/atheist_xmas.txt 
<ultima> I'm fine,. how about you?
<water> making it
<ultima> air, Apple day?
<air> ultima: eh?
07:10pm
<ultima> oh
<ultima> Isaac Newtons b.day =)
<ultima> The true Athiest x-mas.
<air> heh
<eihrul> 
07:20pm
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<water> wb
08:40pm
<air> if i have a string "abcdef", does C have any easy way to strip the abc from it?
<eihrul> no one way to do that
<eihrul> it depends on the memory the string resides in
<eihrul> could either copy the last three characters to a new string
<air> logo can do it
<eihrul> could copy them over the first three letters of the old string
<eihrul> this isn't logo, this is C
<air> so can basic
<water> *basic* can do it
<eihrul> in C, you don't have strings as a first class type
<eihrul> they're just chunks of memory
<air> what about php?
<water> hwat about perl?
<air> well this is for php which is kinda like C
08:50pm
<hcf> abi: PJama is an experimental persistent programming system for Java at http://nenya.ms.mff.cuni.cz/~prochazk/pjama/
<hcf> abi: pbam is ProcessBase Abstract Machine, see http://www-ppg.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/Publications/PDF/PBAM.manual.pdf
<hcf> abi: pam is Persistent Abstract Machine, see http://www-ppg.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/Publications/PDF/pam.pdf
<water> whoa
<water> bored tonight?
<hcf> i noticed that more than once u'v asked abi for pam and such and she didnt know em
<hcf> which as i discover is cuz u pasted the urls to irc, but not in suchandsuch is at <url> form
<hcf> see irc/1999.0702 for the url u pasted
<ultima> abi, pam?
<abi> pam is probably Persistent Abstract Machine, see http://www-ppg.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/Publications/PDF/pam.pdf
<ultima> abi pam is also Pluggable Authentication Modules.
<abi> okay, ultima.
<water> ack!
<water> who cares about *that* pam?
<hcf> abi: no, pam is Persistent Abstract Machine, see http://www-ppg.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/Publications/PDF/pam.pdf
<abi> okay, hcf.
09:00pm
<ultima> heh
<ultima> abi, pam is a very light flavorful cooking oil sold in an aerosol can. There are several flavors, such as lemon, and the cans often have recipies on them.
<abi> ...but pam is Persistent Abstract Machine, see http://www-ppg.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/Publications/PDF/pam.pdf...
<water> heh
<ultima> abi, no, pam is a very light flavorful cooking oil sold in an aerosol can. There are several flavors, such as lemon, and the cans often have recipies on them.
<abi> okay, ultima.
<ultima> there.
<water> geez
<ultima> ;)
<ultima>  abi: no, pam is Persistent Abstract Machine, see http://www-ppg.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/Publications/PDF/pam.pdf
<abi> okay, ultima.
<ultima> (Please, it's 11pm, a little bot-abuse is just what the dr ordered =)
<air> ultima: since u have nothing better to do why dont u goto www.php3.net and find out howto strip characters from the start of a string
<hcf> beos ppl, wheres a page about bfs?
<ultima> air: substr
<water> hmm
<air> ultima: and whats the syntax?
<ultima> substr (string, start, len)
<water> hcf: what kind of info you need?
<ultima> positive start starts from beginning, negative start starts from end
<ultima> positive len goes forwards, negative len goes backwards.
<air> hcf: i think that info is in the devel area on be.com
<water> yeah
09:10pm
<ultima> 'Thanks ult' 'No problem air'
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<ultima> =P =) Goodnight all.
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<hcf> <water> hcf: what kind of info you need?
<hcf> i dont need any, just want an url for the bfs factoid
<water> somewhere on be.com's dev section
<hcf> i'v looked
<water> hmm
<water> the be book describes the programming interface
<hcf> abi: bfs?
<abi> somebody said bfs was BeOS's journaling fs, see http://www.mkp.com/books_catalog/1-55860-497-9.asp
<hcf> i'd rather the info be online
<water> sure
* water/#tunes looks
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<hcf> air: xfs?
<abi> it has been said that xfs is SGI's open source'd 64bit journaling filesystem at http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/
<hcf> air: linux bfs?
<abi> i guess linux bfs is BeOS filesystem for Linux at http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA008030/bfs/
<water> whoa. cool
09:20pm
<hcf> abi: fs etc papers?
<abi> fs etc papers are at http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~ezk/research/
<hcf> abi: avix
<abi> i think avix is avix os at http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/xorcoders/MyProj/avix.html
<hcf> air: lang guide?
<abi> i guess lang guide is at http://umdsun1.umd.umich.edu/CIS/course.des/cis400/index.html
09:30pm
<air> why do u fill abi with url's to OSes that arent worth anything?
<water> yeah. like brix?
<hcf> abi: forget brix
<abi> hcf: I forgot brix
<water> ;)
<air> brix has more than a boot sector and isnt Yet Another DOS
10:00pm
-:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES ([x]chat)
-:- sig11 [sig11@mtv-usr-2-67.mvn.net] has joined #Tunes
<sig11> seen QZ?
<_ruiner_> abi air?
<abi> air is _QZ/liar
<sig11> Ah...
<sig11> he leave?
<_ruiner_> he's just afk I think
<sig11> ah
<sig11> Not talked to 'em for quite some time
-:- NeBulOuS [hidden@sl4lh.dorms.usu.edu] has joined #tunes
* NeBulOuS/#tunes looks at the topic, and mutters "file not found"
<sig11> yeah ;)
10:10pm
-:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org>
<NeBulOuS> I wonder what QZx has been up to these past couple years... still lets me have neb@qzx.com address :P
<sig11> I guess it has been more than a year since I've talked to 'em too
<NeBulOuS> lively channel.
<air> NeBulOuS: hey
<NeBulOuS> we'll have to hang out here more often to keep it interesting, eh sig? :)
<NeBulOuS> heyas brand :)
<NeBulOuS> what's nwe
<NeBulOuS> new
<NeBulOuS> sig and I are taking a break for studying for finals to come bother you
<NeBulOuS> err... break from studying
<NeBulOuS> 16 credit hours in CS, trying to keep a scholarship == dain bramage.
10:20pm
-:- SignOff water: #TUNES (The Tao went that way!)
-:- SignOff abi: #TUNES (dying by hcf's request)
-:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- SignOff sig11: #TUNES (Weeeee.... Oof... <k!15b7>)
-:- SignOff air: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
-:- SignOff NeBulOuS: #TUNES (Leaving)
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.1217
IRC log ended Fri Dec 17 00:00:01 1999