IRC log started Fri Dec 10 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1210 * Fufie/#tunes yawns -:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Tril has no reason) -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[quatramaran.ens.fr]) -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh2-port144.snet.net] has joined #tunes -:- Fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes !spice:*! B00M! -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial149.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes FOO! BAR? indeed 08:30am LOL @ StupidaMouse uh? see topic -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@209-122-203-244.s498.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes hey Al om 08:40am mu Boy, are we all Zen today or what -:- tmf [tmf@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes hey tmf hmm my TCP logging had crashed hi 08:50am method of exercising a cat http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US05443036__ cat /dev/kcore heh % cat "food in cans" cat: can't open food in cans hehe that's not GNU cat. how should I know? I got it off a Web page somewhere * zarq/#tunes is back from being away: trug 09:00am -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Kaufmann's First Law: All following laws are true. Kaufmann's Second Law: All preceding laws are false.) -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh2-port144.snet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- Tril [dem@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #TUNES -:- mode/#tunes [+o Tril] by ChanServ -:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Tril has no reason) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us830.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.105.216] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES (Ping timeout for mibin[62.11.105.216]) -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@207-172-184-65.s65.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- SignOff zarq: #TUNES (Ping timeout for zarq[9dyn25.delft.casema.net]) -:- zarq [zarq@10dyn76.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.105.198] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES (Ping timeout for mibin[62.11.105.198]) -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp153.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes <_ruiner_> abi seen carlito carlito was last seen on IRC 1 days, 23 hours, 2 minutes and 33 seconds ago, saying: what's up? [Wed Dec 8 14:51:41 1999] -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp206.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes 02:00pm -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@207-172-184-216.s216.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :)) -:- Miellaby [sgarden@ppp-44-29-40.wmar.club-internet.fr] has joined #TUNES Hello -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial489.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes Good God 02:20pm What happens ? I just had a first-hand look at CISC processor design, and... I don't know what to say. It's just disgusting. I need to take a shower. -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us228.javanet.com] has joined #tunes Water can help ? Meine Gott -:- Miel [sgarden@ppp-44-33-11.wmar.club-internet.fr] has joined #TUNES -:- SignOff Miellaby: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Miellaby[ppp-44-29-40.wmar.club-internet.fr]) -:- Miel is now known as Miellaby hcf, ever done x86 assembly? What's the topic on #TUNES today ? wish I knew `/t 02:30pm I've the feeling there is more Electronic enginner interseted by TUNES than software engineer. I often hear about new components or architecture, but only a little info on possible OS models. they are just spammers. ignore them LOL smkl Heck, I'm a software guy by nature... it's just that I'm getting started on asm hacking now Anyone 'd like to help me using CVS ? K : You start learning x86 asm ? Miel, yes, I know it's a mistake, but there's a free book (a good one) on it available on the Net, so... Where ? Where can it be found ? abi: art of assembly? i heard art of assembly was at http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/Page_asm/ArtOfAsm.html * smkl/#tunes goes to find a good netbook on COBOL AAAAAACK I'm sorry, did anyone mention COBOL? just so you could read that one too K / Why do you want to learn assembly else ? ? 02:40pm I don't think I can imagine a greater harm to inflict on a beginning programmer than starting him off with COBOL. Why are you intersted to lean assembly ? You need high efficiency for one of your project ? * Miellaby/#TUNES is sorry for the typo. It must be a bad day.... Miel, I think it's important to know assembly, for a series of reasons: first, it'll in handy if I ever want to write a compiler; second, it'll help me write better code; third, if I ever need to do something low-level and not necessarily portable, I'll use assembly. "...it'll /come/ in handy...", rather I wrote a display subfonction in 68000 for a dropped Atari ST game I began long time ago. I can't help you. i wrote too much asm too (for x86) That was my only try. We wrote a 68000 kernel during my engineering studies too. Well, I've already done some reading on zero-operand stack computers, and it spoiled me 02:50pm x86 asm is really horrible, with its numberous modes due to a heavy backward compatibility. I just loved 68000. but is there a good online resource? * Miellaby/#TUNES checks his bookmarks well, I gotta go, but my email is still rnedal@olimpo.com.br ... peace! -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES ("640K should be enough for anyone." - Bill Gates, 1981) -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.102.222] has joined #tunes Is nasm a good assembler? -:- lispbliss [lispbliss@cont01p69.ont.micron.net] has joined #tunes Here is a nice site with ressources related with game programming: http://www.perplexed.com/GPMega/index.htm 03:00pm I like this open source libray of C code : http://www.snippets.org/. The zip file of C code teachs a lot. 03:10pm hmm.. too much beer.. chmod a-r /dev/beer :) tjihi This page could interest those who like virtual robot programming : http://www.lysator.liu.se/realtimebattle/ too much beer once in a while is good though nahh, /me has never got drunk 03:20pm tmf: your mail is in my out-queue. the last couple of days have been too hectic As for me, the concept of full reflexivity ... -:- lispbliss [lispbliss@cont01p69.ont.micron.net] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp206.lvdi.net]) Have a nice day, every1. -:- Miellaby [sgarden@ppp-44-33-11.wmar.club-internet.fr] has left #TUNES [] nahh, i dont think real programmers want full reflexivity -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp151.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes what if the system becomes able to improve itself ... the programmer would no more be needed programmers should have good reflexes in case someone starts shooting with an uzi.. reflexes help you to dive to cover quickly 03:30pm * mibin/#tunes has electric reflexes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) that's a big advantage in this violent world !irq:*! reports of irc spammers; placing gline. objections? !netgod:*! gline at will; take no prisoners !spice:*! KILL!!!!!!! !irq:*! i've had FOUR sightings already. i kill on the first. !larne:*! no add an akill. oh, I forgot, SERVICES IS DOWN :> !irq:*! bah humbug !netgod:*! hmpf :) !irq:*! GLINE IT IS 03:40pm !larne:*! that gline didn't seem to kill anyone !irq:*! he already left !larne:*! oh !larne:*! well thats boring :> !irq:*! the fool leaves right after spamming !irq:*! i know, i wanted to play with his mind first !irq:*! gline placed !larne:*! how many seconds is that ? !netgod:*! thats always fun !irq:*! did not see any wallops from the server for it or anything, though !larne:*! no, he left already !doogie:*! take it to a channel, please !irq:*! i made it for 2 weeks, and don't complain about it being too long !larne:*! too long ! -:- ChanServ has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: http://tunes.org/ -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.102.222] has left #tunes [] -:- kc5tja [kc5tja@garnet.armored.net] has joined #tunes Anyone here actually live at the keyboard? -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@207-172-184-216.s216.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes * AlonzoTG/#tunes hurls a laser guided flaming woodchuck at kc5tja Anyone here familiar with "libtool" ? yes and yes 04:00pm I can't seem to get libtool to do what I want -- to build dynamic libraries. It apparently builds .la files just fine though.. -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn131.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes that was a nice error-message.. os, linc version, libtool version, aclocal version, etc? s/linc/libc/ hi smoke still in doubt on which language to choose? Fufie: Are you speaking to me? kc5: about the errormessage yes.. my other question was for smoke Fufie: No error messages at all. It just doesn't build dynamic libraries... :/ hi fufie; it's even worse today .. i figured i could revamp the original C code :) well, whatever. I'll just ld directly. I just don't have time for this. * kc5tja/#tunes means no offense towards Fufie...just that I'm cramped for time. :) you don't give info kc5 I ask you for os and version and you don't respond What info is there to give? It didn't generate an error message. do you think we're psychic? Oh...I didn't see that. fufie; then again, it didn't seem to be a very good idea Debian Linux 2.1. libc.so.6 smoke: I know.. it's painful to do so kc5: you're fairly new to linux, right? Since 1.3. But this is the first time I've ever used libtool to build my software. (Actually, I was wrong -- I did use kernel 1.2.18 once) do you use libtool with autoconf/automake? * kc5tja/#tunes doesn't know how to use those tools either. (as for new I was referring to your libc versioning.. libc6 doesn't say much.. debian 2.1 is glibc 2.07) I was using libtool because someone recommended I try it -- they said it'd help make my source code be more widely available to other platforms. it does.. it is much less painful than learning the rules for each and every platform and combination of c-compilers and linkers 04:10pm Fufie: Ahh..yeah. Let me verify that. Help me out here -- my mind is drawing a blank. How do I verify the version of glibc installed? * kc5tja/#tunes is embarrased at this point. I should know this... :/ kc5tja! wassup? Fare: Hello! :) ls -l /lib/libc* ok, my boss assigned me to the tunes lll, full time. Fare: I'm implementing a subset of COM under Linux called GCOM (Generic COM). And please don't recommend XPCOM -- it's way too Netscape-bound. I won't recommend any COM, but that is irrelevant I'm not recommending anything Fufie: OK, just kick me in the pants...*grin* It's 2.0.7. do you know XCOM? :-) (sure you do) Fufie: COM is bad ass -- it rocks. Far better than CORBA, and way, way easier to implement too. Fare: I helped write the spec. :) -:- zecar [zecar@62.11.104.131] has joined #tunes sorry to say that (my lab has been a heavy corba actor in the past, and still is), but corba mostly sucks fare; what company do you ask for, if i may ask? it's the wrong ideas and wrong compromise; of course, it's because it uses the wrong development model, due to proprietary software smoke: you may ask. If anyone is interested, I can pass along my current GCOM sources (.tar.gz file). I implemented /almost/ everything I need to get CoCreateInstance() working. I need to implement Berkeley DB support (that's going to be my "registry"), and then wrap it into a libcom.so.0.1 file for testing purposes. * kc5tja/#tunes wrote the GCOM code I have now in less than a day. * kc5tja/#tunes would like to set up GCOM to be an open source project some day. However, I'm not sure I want to use the GPL for a license. But I digress. I still need help in using libtool (I'd REALLY like to retrofit my source code to use autoconf/automake. Can anyone please assist in that?) would it help with a real-life example where it works? fare; i already did I am looking at the generated makefiles to understand how libtool is invoked Fufie: I took the libtool package from the Berkeley DB source code, where it seems to work. But I'm not sure what they're doing to get it to work. I know they are using autoconf/automake though... :( -:- SignOff zecar: #TUNES (Ping timeout for zecar[62.11.104.131]) one of my projects use libtool/autoconf/automake and does this properly it was some work with autoconf and automake though As I'd expected -- the three tools appear to be designed specifically to work with each other. yes * kc5tja/#tunes has always been repelled by autoconf/automake, though, because they appear to be voraciously difficult to set up. libtool is simplest when configure figures out correct options for it 04:20pm though here is an example on how a shared object is made with c++: c++ -I../../include -I../../intl -Wall -W -Winline -Wno-unused -fno-implicit-templates -g -Wp,-MD,.deps/Sstring.pp -c -fPIC -DPIC Sstring.cpp -o Sstring.lo c++ -I../../include -I../../intl -Wall -W -Winline -Wno-unused -fno-implicit-templates -g -Wp,-MD,.deps/Sstring.pp -c Sstring.cpp -o Sstring.o >/dev/null 2>&1 oops.. the first line was dropped :( /bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=compile c++ -I../../include -I../../intl -Wall -W -Winline -Wno-unused -fno-implicit-templates -g -c Sstring.cpp and the first line produces the other two (dynamic and static) Right. I'm using this: libtool gcc -o libcom.la alloc.lo lists.lo ...etc... This is taken from a website with libtool documentation on it. I checked the libtool script, and it does have the switch set for building dynamic libs, but it seems something else also needs to be set. that's the linking stage it seems the linking here is: /bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=link c++ -Wall -W -Winline -Wno-unused -fno-implicit-templates -g -o libsdstools.la -rpath /home/stig/tut/lib Sstring.lo Options.lo errhandl.lo xmltool.lo toolbox.lo inst.lo you need the modes set right Hmm...it seems to surmise that I'm trying to link, as the .la is generated correctly. I'll try it with a manual --mode=link setting though...just a second. smoke: what did you already? Windows is hell. Unix is purgatory. Fufie: No..it's just not working. This time it copped out with an error while trying to build the libcom.la file: "compile: cannot determine name of library object from `libcom.la'" I think I need to figure out how to use autoconf/automake at this point. Any references? fare; i wanted to ask where you work for, but somehow i didn't * kc5tja/#tunes needs to learn how to use Make more effectively too...*sheesh* I need a separate development person on my team just to keep up with the make options... did you compile the object-files for the .la with --mode=compile ? Fufie: Yes. if you know cvs it is easy to check out a working example where I can give detailed help or you might try the berkely db thing Fufie: Ok, I have a question about autoconf. I'm reading the man pages right now. I guess I need to feed it a "configure.in" file, and it spits out a "configure" script. Do I distribute that configure script, or do I have to distribute the autoconf/automake stuff as well? 04:30pm Fufie: I have been trying to follow the Berkeley DB stuff for awhile, but it's no use. I think I really need to buckle down and learn autoconf... :) Besides, if I'm going to make GCOM open source, then I'll eventually need to do this anyway. it is customary to rig things up and in the developer version people make their own configure with autoconf.. but when you do "make dist" a working configure is included Hmm... automake is braindead at times though and autoconf is about as tasty as a can of worms.. but after the fuss to get things into the automake/autoconf/libtool system things are actually not too bad I notice that configure scripts are pretty darned cryptic. The epitome of the shell scripts NOT to write... ;) I remember fighting it for some time but now I almost never need to do much Makefile-work.. it's 5.6M source already and fixing makefiles for it is a nightmare configure is generated but autoconf isn't easy either.. it's bourne shell, and not anything decent Exactly. And in component-based software environments, it's the sheer quantities of individual components that I dread maintaining makefiles for. configure.in is bourne shell I mean smoke: I work for France Telecom smoke: are you asking me anything? kc5: the worst thing about being developer is that you have to be half-time power-user, half-time toolsmith and half-time sysadmin and still get something done.. Fufie: Especially when the project you're developing for is half in-house private and half open-source, AND you work for an ISP, AND you *ARE* the technical support. :-) ouchie There's a reason why I got an electric guitar for myself -- so I won't have to deal with computers at the end of the day. :) maybe I should get an el-guitar then instead of hanging out in bars Hehe...Well, I've been mildly interested in music for a while. I've never really persued it until a few months ago though, so I 'suck' pretty badly. :) Fufie: Well, if you learn el-guitar, you can start a band...then you can play IN bars, and actually GET money (though not much) for playing. :) a case of beer is more likely for a long time :) though.. playing a guitar probably gets one more girls than knowing the intimate details of automake ;) * kc5tja/#tunes hasn't noticed any excess females as of yet. ;) I'm hoping though... 04:40pm -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-122.ici.net] has joined #tunes fare; you have answered my question Geez...the documentation for autoconf sure has changed since I last remember seeing it. The info file for it seems to be somewhat helpful. :) hey-lo all Howdy! :) hi downie :) autoconf info isn't that bad.. automake is worse. Say Fufie, have you used autoscan? How well does it work? it might work if you have a really really clean c-like project but you will end up writing stuff manually anyway.. it might be interesting to test it and see what is generated though the most sucky thing about autoconf is that any vari8able and anything called lisp is thought to be sucky emacs lisp instead of a real lisp Well, I'm going to continue reading the docs first. What started out as a little question is quickly turning into a major undertaking. usually work that way :) What's funny is the code I'm writing isn't complicated. It's the source code /management/ that is. :) om yepers. that needs to be werked on. someone should write a good system for it.. make sucks EuNiCkS doesn't make it any easier either... haven't tried miller's aegis yet though FUCKING ESMACKS!!! =\ emacs is nicer than most alternatives for writing lisp-code As much as I dislike Microsoft products, their Visual C++ development environment is quite good. But I love Borland's Turbo-C (for DOS) system. Their project files wiped the floor with the average makefile system. i love emacs EMACS need a re-write I feel In assembly language. :-) visual c++ is nice enough if you have a really fast computer and you want to conform to their settings and don't need to tweak anything.. which happens about as often as .. never downix; a new extendable editor wouldn't harm, but it will have to be better than emacs, not more bloated smoke: Agreed. Fufie and I were talking about how nice EMACS would be if someone were to re-code the whole thing in C LISP Well, if people are interested, I'm writing GCOM (a Generic COM implementation). That might be a good test of the library. :) I wish it were modular so you can have a 256k binary, with a 100k add-on for each such as the Phatness... Agreed Al 04:50pm I mean HTML,.... phatness was just on my mind at the moment. =P I'm still here...just eating and reading... :] Downix: efuns? efuns is an ocaml-based development system at http://pauillac.inria.fr/para/cdrom/prog/unix/efuns hrm? I don't think the elisp interpreter is more than 256k.. then you strap on the gui and editor ;) ok oy vey abi: efuns is also an emacs clone okay, Fare. * kc5tja/#tunes really likes Jed. * Fare/#Tunes likes echo >> * Fare/#Tunes likes modifying the hard disk with a magnet. * kc5tja/#tunes likes ALT and numeric keypad... ;) * Fufie/#tunes likes beer and sleep efuns doesn't seem to have a lisp-mode free beer and free sleep? Fufie: write one :) even gratis beer works for me :) 05:00pm -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES (xchat exiting..) Oh yeah.... I love this little line from the autoconf info files: "This approach makes the generated `configure' script a little easier to read by not inserting lots of blank lines.' -:- NetSplit: asimov.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [05:08pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [asimov.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: asimov.openprojects.net irc.linux.com -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- zarq [zarq@10dyn76.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn131.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes ocaml's speed was nice (about 50% of the equivalent in C) smoke: That's not bad for a functional language. Quite impressive, actually. how did you test the speed? 05:10pm kc5: there are two levels.. overall efficiency of a large system and the speed of small snippets.. c excel at the last.. seldom at the first -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial854.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes Hey guys... not gonna be here for long Hey Fare, who is Konstantin Boldyshev? Fufie: Yup. The larger the project becomes, more dominant the effect of inter-module communication (indicating overall algorithm efficiency) than the speed of each individual component. doh kc5tja: it was tested on imperative constructs i tested 100,000 times this loop: for (i=0;i<1000;i++) { outbuf[i] = inbuf1[i] * inbuf2[i]; } -- yes, this says not more than one teensy thing of ocaml, but i liked it :) smoke: the fact that it's functional doesn't change a thing. What's impressive is the fact that it's type-checked and garbage-collected. smoke: that test doesn't reveal a whole lot abi: Konstantin Boldyshev is the new maintainer of the Assembly-HOWTO and leader of the Lightning project fufie; i know, but it's hard to compare functional algorithms to imperative ones Fare: Lightning? What's that? fufie; (especially as i don't know how to write functional code, nor even know what the fun/use of it is) smoke: then it it really unfair to compare imperative constructs, no? abi: Konstantin Boldyshev is also at http://lightning.voshod.com/asm/ okay, Fare. -:- lar1 [LarMan@dialup-209.245.138.142.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes fufie; oh yes it's unfair.. but i just wanted to know if the ocaml implementers were braindead people :) Woah! Lots of people! smoke: they are not :p abi: Lightning is also a Linux distribution written in i386 assembly okay, Fare. (or something like that) (set! outbuf (maptimes (lambda (i) (* (aref i inbuf1) (aref i inbuf2))) 1000)) Good god Fare, what do you mean by "written"? what's maptimes? Fare: Lightning: What part of the distro is in asm? is that scheme or lisp or what? Fare: In assembly? Egads. Is he rewriting the kernel in assembly? He's insane if he is. -O4 -fomit-frame-pointer produces outstanding code on an x86... Maybe I'm reading too much into it. :) lar1: all the user software fare; it maps something n (1000) times Fare, just a little higher-order function I've written... the functionality should be pretty obvious Ahh..that's slightly better. :-) I believe the russians are short in hard disk space, or something. and RAM, too Fufie, Scheme, although the maptimes form is not standard or anything Fare: Ah. Sounds cool! Where is it at? so that asm is here for size opt rather than time opt kauf: ok.. is it called aref in scheme? Fare: Yeah, but you gotta admint -- it's going to be gosh-darned /fast/ when he's finished with it. :0 :) Fufie, I suppose... I haven't actually gone to the trouble of testing it :) kc5tja; it's not that hard to produce better code with handwritten asm.. it just takes some more time :) kc5tja: fast at *what*? You can look it up if you want smoke: another interesting thing to compare is how long it takes the programmer to write an app.. remember that programmers are expensive :) fufie; i am very cheap Fare: Parsing command line arguments, of course! ;) I doubt he writes algorithms for fast but complex data structures in asm kc5tja: Are you a ham? fufie; i pay about $2 an hour to visit university ;) lar1: Yes I am. smoke: maybe I should hire you as my personal assistant then :p lar1: I should have said "QSL", but I missed the opportunity. Oh well... :) things like FFT, logarithmic-append lists, fast multiplication of bignums, etc 05:20pm kc5tja: Ah! Very cool. kf6slw here fufie; thing is, there's only one me. lar1: I'm in Oceanside, CA (KC5TJA/6, DM13). What's your QTH? wtf kc5tja: SanJose, CA... I don't know my grid, thoguh smoke: is that good or bad for the price? fufie; as seen from the viewpoint of the price itself, it's to be considered bad Jesus Christ!!! Where the hell is all the non-x86 assembly documentation?!? kaufmann; printed on the inside of the chip of course * smoke/#tunes should get some sleep * Fufie/#tunes goes to sleep as well-.. good night ha-ha smoke, very funny kaufmann; note that i realize that i need to get some sleep good bye everyone kc5tja: What is your mode of choice on the air? * AlonzoTG/#tunes drops a cherry bomb in the middle of the channel. lar1: I'm not too sure. I like CW a lot, but then all I have is a SW-40+ rig tuned to the novice subband. (I'm Tech+). I don't mind 2m FM as long as there is something interesting to talk about. lar1: I'd like to get a better HF rig though, but I cannot afford it. <<<<<<<< B00M!!! >>>>>>>>>> AlonzoTG: I'm sorry to hear this. The effects should soon pass... AlonzoTG: After the smoke clears, of course... :) -:- smoke [smoke@15dyn131.delft.casema.net] has left #tunes [] Fufie: autoscan apparently auto-detected that I use libdl...that's good... ;) egads egads egads -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.106.9] has joined #tunes Oh man, it looks like I'll have to buy this damn book Which book is that? why, "Introduction to RISC Assembly Language Programming", of course - the absolute /only/ book on the subject JFC 05:30pm Ah, some progress at last! Oh well - I'm going to bed now... peace, all * kc5tja/#tunes waves to Kaufmann * kc5tja/#tunes continues to read up on autoconf... -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (*KA-BOOM* This is what happens when people like me are allowed anywhere near assembly programming tools.) kc5tja: Ah. I am just a tech so I do 2 meter FM. Accually what cool is my 4th grade teacher owns the repeater I use! lar1: Your 4th grade teacher? What grade are you in? Not many young hams where I live. The youngest ham I ever met was only 5 years old, back in N.Y. state. I am in 9th, so I am 14 Very cool. :) :) 05:40pm If I could just get that code down... the VEs said I would have passed if I had knewen my numbers. Hmmph! Those numbers are hard ;) Oh well, I don't practice much, I suppose that would have a positive effect err, practicing more Sometimes. I still have subtle difficulties with them, though I'm pretty familiar with a large number of them. What I especially hate are the abbreviated numbers. Fortunately, those are relatively rarely used. Abbreviated Numbers? Oy veh! As long as they aren't on the test Although it would be neat-o neat-o to beable to do 30wpm+ I'm not sure about the W5YI tests, but the ARRL tests do NOT (I repeat) do NOT use them. :) There is more then one type of test? Hmm, I belive I took the ARRL one Yeah, it'd be as fast as regular voice chatting. I'm hovering around 10wpm myself, though I can burst up to about 13 every so often. But I've not been on the air much of late, because of limited space at our apartment. ARRL tests are the best, in my opinion. Ah! Lowprofile hammage! Yup. And a QRP operator too -- I don't do anything above 1.5W of power. Woah! QRP is cool. I built a Pixie II once (a very simple QRP rig) but never got it working. Well, my dad holds an extra class licence so we have quite the radio assortment, IMHO * kc5tja/#tunes is currently trying to build his own HF binaural receiver. Do(es) you/he do any microwave work? No, I _really_ want to do microwave and moonbounce but dad shys away from that I would love to do moonbounce someday. I have picked up Mir on 2m once (on my rubber duck antenna of all things). But I only did that once. sam: what kind of coordinate is kc5tja? Wow! Gotta love those duckys! Mabye one day I will see you on the moon ;) Fare: It's not a coordinate, per se. It's a radio callsign which uniquely identifies my presence on the ham bands. DM13 would be my coordinates, and is a grid-square system not unlike the marine/nautical grid-square system in use in some places. lar1: Doubtful. With the amount of money I have, I just can't afford a dish antenna. Besides, I don't live in a house, so our apartment management would probably throw a fit at me putting up a 5m-diameter 2m parabolic dish. :) who allots callsigns? Fare: The Federal Communications Commision Fare: In the U.S., it'd be the Federal Communications Commission. brb 05:50pm -:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES ([x]chat) back Co-worker set his video mode too high, and we all know how Windows NT likes to "recover" from stuff like that. Heh Uhhh This autoconf thing is pretty dang complicated... Correction. It's not complicated. It has a very high learning curve. Nothing is ever complicated ;) om * AlonzoTG/#tunes hates complicated stuff... he still uses DOS. 5 files, only 2 need to be configured... AlonzoTG: Shh! Not complicated! _high learning curve_! Plus commands. Besides, I need to know this for my project at work. The fact it helps my personal projects is a fringe benefit. :-) kc5tja: Have you ever been able to do some 2m work during tropo? AlanzoTG: the file is the wrong unit. Use Windows9x. Only one hard disk, a small part of which needs be configured lar1: Almost daily, in fact. Our 2m repeater on 146.730MHz often "works" tropo with another repeater in Los Angeles, tens of miles away. 2m? is that the wave length? Fare: Yes Fare: Yes, that's the wavelength of the radio band we'd be communicating on. fare: 144 Mhz kc5tja: Very sweet! Now if only there would be a nice duct to San Jose ;). Oh well, the solution is for me to learn the code I'd love to QSO with you on 40m. Novice subband is pretty bad spot to use, because of all the Spanish AM broadcast stations. That's why I want to learn code to a minimum of 13wpm -- so I can start using the General-class frequencies. They're more premium. Or wait for the licence restructuring ;) 06:00pm QSO? Fare: Have a conversation QSO is a "Q" signal for "Conversation." You don't do any SSB work? lar1: With what? :) My only HF rig is CW only. :) SSB ? Fare: Single Side Band Fare: Half of an FM signal, basically kc5tja: Ah :) That makes it quite a deal harder... Single Side-Band. It's a form of AM radio which eliminates one of the two sidebands, and the AM carrier. Same audio quality with half the bandwidth (and half the power). But tuning needs to be more precise. why don't people use digital radio? Because SSB uses only a third the power of a normal AM signal, you can increase your transmission power by three times, thereby covering 9 times the distance, without loss of information in the signal. kc5tja: what kind of stuff do you broadcast? Fare: Why do people use CW? That would take away the fun, that digital radio... Fare: In Europe (UK primarily) they do. In the U.S., our Ham radio community is primarily populated by people over the age of 50 to 60; thus, they're stuck in the Vacuum tube era, and anything other than plain-voice is somehow "taboo" and against FCC regs. isn't radio stuff mostly useful for isolated places and mobile trucks? Fare: Or so they think. :) -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-47.ici.net] has joined #tunes Fare: I transmit voice primarily. Music is forbidden by FCC regulations, unfortunately. Which stinks, because I'd love to start a music net. Fare: I also use radio for when I'm on the road. Heck of a lot cheaper than cell radio. :-)