IRC log started Sat Jul 17 00:00:00 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0717
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<Crimson> Is it true that Tunes has no kernel?
<tcn> maybe
<Crimson> cool...
<tcn> depends which path it takes.. it's still pretty early
<tcn> was someone else talking to you?
<AlonzoTG> hi red
<AlonzoTG> =)
<tcn> abi: seen Fare
<abi> Fare was last seen saying something on IRC Sat Jul 17 01:47:50 1999
<tcn> abi: time
<abi> time is 08:09:30 1999
<tcn> abi: time?
<abi> i guess time is 08:09:30 1999
<AlonzoTG> We hafn't phigured this nokernel out yet. =\
<AlonzoTG> so don't belief what u read
<AlonzoTG> or red
<AlonzoTG> =P
08:10am
<tcn> exokernel is more accurate.. there's no such thing as a no-kernel os
* AlonzoTG/#tunes agrees
<AlonzoTG> bbiab
<Crimson> I know, but i prefer microkernel, which you hate according to the homeage?
<Crimson> homepage...
<tcn> yeah, microkernels do a lot of unnecessary communication
<Crimson> but at the other hand, it is very flexible
<tcn> so is an exokernel, but it's not slow
08:20am
<tcn> go check out the exokernel pages
<tcn> I think it's somewhere under http://pdos.mit.edu
<tcn> pdos.lcs.mit.edu
<tcn> anyway, i'm happy
<hcf> tcn: whys that?
<tcn> I got IDE read/writes and VGA 320x200x256c working this morning
<hcf> glory! glory! retro advances
* AlonzoTG/#tunes has no money to keep his piece of junk kar on the road. =(((((
<tcn> umm
<tcn> get a job?
<AlonzoTG> =\
<AlonzoTG> eek
<AlonzoTG> I gotta first quit this fucking eng 112 class that I am failing...
<AlonzoTG> =((((((
<tcn> yeah go find a company that'll hire a computer geek for the summer
<AlonzoTG> somer is haf over. =((((((
* AlonzoTG/#tunes is not geeky enuff
<tcn> then find a company whose college kid is leaving in a month :)
08:30am
<tcn> heh
<tcn> i crashed dselect by resizing its xterm
<Crimson> I too got vga stuff working some days ago. cool!
<Crimson> I am currently working on the ide-driver for my os.
<hcf> Crimson: url for ur os?
<Crimson> http://www.chaosdev.org
<tcn> wow
<tcn> outta nowhere :)
<hcf> abi: chaos is at http://www.chaosdev.org
<hcf> Crimson: add anything u want to that by using 'abi: chaos is also foo'
<tcn> you think Lynx supports CSS pages?
<Crimson> no...
<hcf> Crimson: did u do the html for the site?
<Crimson> yes, partly...
<Crimson> Me and Plundis, who is mentioned on the page under about us..,
<hcf> Crimson: thanks for putting the page size next to the links
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<Crimson> ok...
<hcf> its a good thing
<Crimson> We are working pretty hard for the moment and the project is growing quite fast now.
<Crimson> Are you the guys making Tunes?
<smkl> what project?
<abi> project is too large for one person :)
<smkl> abi: die
<abi> ok i'm dead
<Crimson> who the hell is abi? ;)
<hcf> abi: what's abi
<abi> hmmm... i am the little girl borg with a big brain or #tunes' personal little whore or gaklosmontic or flurivostuginuous or xyvarestoplik or an Artificial Idiot or braindead or a crack addict infoslut or stubborn
<tcn> hm, it runs on a 386sx16.. must be a decent microkernel design
08:40am
<Crimson> we use a computer like that to test it, and it runs ok.
<hcf> Crimson: hmm that doesnt really properly say, she's an infobot
<Crimson> ok... =)
<tcn> I keep up with the low-level aspects of Tunes.. actually I'm supposed to be LLL project maintainer now :)
<Crimson> ok, i mostly write the kernel and hardware-servers
<Crimson> those are the things that is most interresting, according to me.
<tcn> so the kernel is 15k but that doesn't count the servers, does it?
<Crimson> no. for the moment, the kernelimage is about 15-20 kb gzipped. 
<Crimson> we use Grub, so the kernel and servers are gzipped elfs.
<Crimson> But if you want to download both the servers and the kernel, you have to take the cbaos-package...
<Crimson> storm is the name of the kernel.
-:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org> || slim <http://birch.eecs.lehigh.edu/slim/> || _QZ's car <http://www.qzx.com/sunfire/> || chaos <http://www.chaosdev.org>
<Crimson> i like that topic. :)
<tcn> you think anyone cares about qz's sunfire?
<hcf> tcn: how can i know what ppl care about
-:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org> || slim <http://birch.eecs.lehigh.edu/slim/> || chaos <http://www.chaosdev.org>
<Crimson> never hurd about it...
<Crimson> ;)
<tcn> the shots weren't that good anyway
<Crimson> i dont like the hurd very much though, as it is neither macro- nor micro-kernel.
<tcn> he couldn't get a good front shot, the camera couldn't handle those lighting conditions
08:50am
<Crimson> i am going to code a LOT now on the ide-server. see you later...
<tcn> 15-20k gzipped? heeh
<tcn> anyway, good luck
<AlonzoTG> om
<tcn> want my ide code quick?
<tcn> it's in nasm
<tcn> WTF? viruscan for Linux??
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Ping timeout for AlonzoTG[209-122-204-130.s511.tnt4.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com])
>>> tcn [tcn@cci-209150250110.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 932227321 747959 from #tunes
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<tcn> well I gotta get a haircut
<tcn> later
-:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason)
09:00am
<Crimson> quote from dopewars: "you need a yellow haircut"
<hcf> Crimson: do u irc often?
<AlonzoTG> Red: Have you looked at my OS project? Do you need anything done on yours?
<Crimson> hcf: naaa...
<Crimson> i mostly chat with members of the chaos-project in #chaos on irc.chaosdev.org (which is not up right now, but will soon(
<hcf> Crimson: do irc here in the mean time
<hcf> as in, use irc.openprojects.net to host #chaos
<Crimson> it is very temporarily down, and will be up in a couple of minutes (i am the administrator)
<hcf> oh
<Crimson> but right now, i have more important work to do
09:10am
<Crimson> have to convert my scheduler algoritms to real C-code tonight also...
<hcf> wtf, debian.org's search is /still/ down
09:20am
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<s_r> what stage of development is chaos now in?
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<Kaufmann> Shalom!
10:10am
<AlonzoTG> om
10:20am
<s_r> om?
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<Plundis> hi, people.
<s_r> why are all the chaos people here :)
<Kaufmann> chaos?
<abi> chaos is at http://www.chaosdev.org
<Kaufmann> wow, that's /really/ helpful
<Kaufmann> thank you abi.
<Kaufmann> (someone could at least program her to be polite or something)
<Crimson> Plundis: coding the ide-server...
<Plundis> Crimson: cool.
<Plundis> Crimson: read your mail.
<Crimson> hcf: what is irc.openprojects.net?
<hcf> Kaufmann: i asked Crimson to add something more to it
<Crimson> Plundis: have already done that...
<hcf> Crimson: this irc net
<Plundis> Crimson: cool..
<Crimson> hcf: ahh...
<Crimson> hcf: add something to what?
<hcf> Crimson: <hcf> Crimson: add anything u want to that by using 'abi: chaos is also foo'
<Plundis> abi: chaos is also a microkernel-based operating system.
<abi> okay, Plundis.
<Crimson> abi: chaos is microkernel
<abi> ...but chaos is at http://www.chaosdev.org or a microkernel-based operating system....
<Crimson> cool
<Crimson> Plundis: you were too fast...
<hcf> Crimson: use 'is also'
10:30am
<Crimson> hcf: ahhh ok...
<hcf> u guys may wanna add something (to abi's chaos def) that says how chaos differs from other microkernel oses
<Plundis> hcf: it doesn't. :-)
<s_r> what makes chaos special?
<Plundis> hcf: perhaps it's more micro..
<hcf> Plundis: oh, so just yet another, how boring
<hcf> Plundis: "nanokernel"?
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<hcf> hoy eStormy
<Plundis> hcf: or something..
<Plundis> hcf: it's not different yet, but in some months you'll surely notice the difference.
<eStormy> hi
<abi> hi, eStormy
<eStormy> 12 folks...most ever i've seen
<Kaufmann> Heh
<Crimson> abi: chaos is also small, fast and secure
<abi> okay, Crimson.
10:40am
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
<Kaufmann> *yawn*
11:10am
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES ("Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." - Albert Einstein. For more information regarding the good and evil of nationalism, contact Fare at OpenProjectsNet #Tunes. (Heh.))
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<tcn> abi: chaos?
<abi> chaos is yet another micro/nano-kernel based os at http://www.chaosdev.org or small, fast and secure, blah blah *snore*
11:30am
* AlonzoTG/#tunes needs komplier ekspertz
<tcn> Donald Knuth
<AlonzoTG> maybe...
<AlonzoTG> Know any compiler experts with e-mail addresses?
<tcn> you know if he ever wrote volumes 4-7?
<AlonzoTG> =P
<AlonzoTG> I think he is still working on them.
<tcn> yeah
<tcn> compilers change to fast to keep up with, I guess
<tcn> but vols. 1-3 have things useful for compilers
<tcn> also www.dnai.com/~jfox
<tcn> hey did you get some book about forth?
<s_r> tcn so do you think HickServ's language will progress at all?
<tcn> oh, he'll probably go on to something better
11:40am
<s_r> what do you mean?
<tcn> i don't know him in real life, but i think he's in over his head.. he'll get frustrated and work on something simpler for awhile.. you know, something satisfying
<tcn> but don't tell him I said that :)
<tcn> I wouldn't wanna discourage him
<s_r> tcn have you lately considered developing a new language
<s_r> or are you still content with Forth?
<tcn> i flip-flop on that issue
<tcn> I got back into computers, oh, 1 1/2 years ago, to write a new language.. then I found forth, then I wanted a new langauge, now I'm happy enough with forth...
<s_r> there are very many OSes in development
<AlonzoTG> =\
<s_r> it's hard to keep track of them all
<s_r> i just found out about ChaOS today
<Crimson> s_r: ask me questions...
<Crimson> i'm one of the few kernel-programmers in the chaos-project.
<AlonzoTG> =\
<s_r> Crimson: in the FAQ it says "being revolutionary is essential to Chaos' design"
<s_r> what's revolutionary about it?
<AlonzoTG> I need to learn about compilers some more.
<s_r> Alonzo: read gcc src code
<AlonzoTG> I would preferr to recruit someone else who already knows it....
<tcn> there's an upshot to all this OS programming.. if everyone & his brother writes an OS, at least there won't be any moron users
<tcn> atg: don't look at gcc, look at eForth and tinyScheme
<AlonzoTG> heh
<tcn> uhh
11:50am
<tcn> why would a computer expert want to work for a novice?
<AlonzoTG> I'd rather I recruit someone, I don't have the time, I'm already an Operating Systems ekspert, and the devision ov labour is a good idea.
* tcn/#tunes ducks behind a brick wall
<AlonzoTG> does he have any choice?
<AlonzoTG> Who would hire a computer ekspert other than a novice?
<tcn> why don't YOU go work for an "expert"?
<tcn> or s/for/with/
-:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (thunder ...)
<tcn> hehe
<tcn> I heard there's a heat wave over there
<AlonzoTG> the ekspert doesn't need my services.
<tcn> hey you think you'd make more progress if there was no IRC or WWW?
<tcn> (just, say, FTP, email, usenet)
<tcn> hmm
<tcn> my boss wants to minimize the division of labor
<tcn> it's stupid to coordinate 10 people to do something when you could do the same thing yourself, faster, with a better chance of finishing, and better consistency
<tcn> it's like human-wave programming vs. lone-hacker programming
<tcn> windows vs. linux
<tcn> programming is an art
<tcn> do artists work in comittees?
12:00pm
>>> tcn [tcn@cci-209150250127.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 932238467 762041 from #tunes
<s_r> tcn working on Retro?
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<tcn> reading some web pages
<s_r> i'm downloading some mp3s
<s_r> tcn how did you become an asm expert?
<s_r> did you read code?
<tcn> seeing what's new with the Forth folks
<tcn> uh, expert?
<s_r> rm bitchx
<s_r> whoops wrong window
<tcn> wrong OS
<s_r> heh yeah
<s_r> what i meant to say is that IRC wastes time
<s_r> btw, there is a port of 'rm' for windows
<tcn> yup, got that years ago
<s_r> linux!?!?!
<s_r> yuck
<tcn>  v /c/util/rm*
<tcn> -rw-rw----   1 root     users       14238 Sep 23  1990 /c/util/rm.exe
<tcn> -rw-rw----   1 root     users       10480 Sep 19  1990 /c/util/rmdir.exe
<tcn> wow look at those dates
<tcn> yeah, I never get anything done when I have an IRC session open
<s_r> at that time, most people didn't know about the internet
<tcn> including me
<tcn> I downloaded from a bbs in about 1992
<s_r> it would be really cool if i knew about the internet during 1988-1991
12:10pm
<tcn> they woouldn't appreciate 10 year olds on there back then
<tcn> heh
<s_r> hahaa
<tcn> or whatever you were
<s_r> 2 years old
<tcn> you're 13?
<s_r> j/k
<s_r> that's more like HickServ
<s_r> how old were you in 1990?
<tcn> about 13
<tcn> last winter there was a kid on here, like 13, who seemed more like 18
<s_r> what were the best years of your life?
<tcn> 1999
<tcn> childhood sucks
<s_r> when i was a child i didn't have a care in the world (tm)
<tcn> your parents weren't divorced?
<s_r> hell no
<tcn> weird :)
<tcn> are they now?
<s_r> no
<s_r> bah... should get some work done
<s_r> i'll have to ignore the irc window
<tcn> well it sucks to have parents fighting with each other over bullshit, then getting divorced and fighting over custody,...
<tcn> just quit irc and sign off the net
<tcn> that's how I get stuff done
<s_r> heh
<tcn> see ya
12:20pm
-:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason)
<s_r> hmmm actually i wonder what HickServ's age is...
<s_r> sounds like a teenager but i really don't know
12:40pm
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<s_r> hi hcf
01:20pm
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<hcf> hoy smkl
<hcf> oops
<hcf> hoy s_r
<hcf> oh, i ges the 1st works too
<smkl> umm hello
<hcf> umm sup?
<s_r> life sux
01:40pm
<hcf> at times
* s_r/#tunes is reading Chaos src code.
<s_r> well coded
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01:50pm
<s_r> QZ: have you heard of ChaOS?
<_QZ> yes
<hcf> abi: be _qz
<abi> u need to stop pulling buzzwords out of yer ass
<_QZ> dont remember anything about it tho
<_QZ> haha
<s_r> Chaos has a really small kernel
<s_r> abi: be Fare
<abi> having good original ideas is no excuse for not learning good established ideas
<s_r> hah
<s_r> abi: be tril
<hcf> abi: be water
<abi> you don't realize how much you're de-sensitized to the infrastructure
<hcf> abi: be water
<abi> blah blah blah, more wisdom from the closed mind
<hcf> abi: be water
<abi> wow
<s_r> abi: be Fare
<abi> having good original ideas is no excuse for not learning good established ideas
<s_r> abi: be me
<abi> qz is brix out yet? is it? come on! i need it NOW
<s_r> hahaha
<s_r> abi: be hcf
<s_r> hcf, no fair, make one for yourself
<AlonzoTG> abi: be AlonzoTG
<AlonzoTG> abi: be me
02:00pm
<s_r> <abi> Can someone help me with my OS?? PLZ!!! I am too lame
<s_r> that's what she should say
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* Plundis/#tunes is gone. Gone since Sat Jul 17 19:43:00 1999
<_QZ> should i add smp to brix before releasing it or after?
<s_r> if you want to run it on dual Celerons :)
<s_r> maybe if you release it first someone knowledeable could help you with SMP support
<hcf> _QZ: it doesnt matter, since it wont ever be released
<_QZ> s_r: oh i dont need help with smp
<_QZ> smp is easy
<_QZ> has anyone used http://www.developer.com/?
<s_r> in early developnment stages you should mdake an initial smp free release and develop smp in later kernels so as to have one working version before you iron out the smp bugs
<s_r> hurd?
<s_r> abi: hurd is the GNU Hurd, an advanced microkernel free OS
<_QZ> s_r: "/msg abi hurd?" will also work and keeps the log size down
02:10pm
<s_r> there's nothing good on developer.com
<_QZ> s_r: thank u for checking, now i can rm the bookmark :)
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<s_r> hornet.org is good
<s_r> sandpile.org too
<_QZ> ya i know, i have those
<s_r> QZ where can i order intel manuals online (developer.intel.com doesn't seem to have any way to do this) 
<_QZ> u order the free cd
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<s_r> abi: be fare
<abi> having good original ideas is no excuse for not learning good established ideas
<Fare> hum
<Fare> abi: do you repeat everything I say?
<abi> fare: no idea
02:20pm
<Crimson> Have done a LOT of coding on the chaos kernel tonight...
<Crimson> and the ide-server as well...
<s_r> Crimson: what else do you still have to finish?
<s_r> when do you think ChaOS will be at the stage Linux was in release 1.x?
<_QZ> chaos?
<abi> chaos is probably yet another micro/nano-kernel based os at http://www.chaosdev.org or small, fast and secure, blah blah *snore*
<_QZ> heh
<s_r> BRiX is microkernel too
<_QZ> not the same kind tho
<s_r> QZ why didn't you opt for exokernel?
<_QZ> hah
<s_r> ?
<s_r> there is no single file in the Chaos storm source code that is over 6kb
<s_r> so small
<s_r> ChaOS is great!
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> there are no files in brix that are over 6k
<s_r> i haven't seen brix source code but i'm not sure if it can compete with the succint and optimized nature of Chaos functions
02:30pm
<hcf> s_r: does this mean ur brix worship is over?
<s_r> hahahaha
<_QZ> chaos cant compete with brix at all cuz its not the same kinda microkernel
<s_r> what makes it different?
<Fare> have you read my article about microkernels?
* AlonzoTG/#tunes ph33rs Crims0n'$ 1337N3$$...
<_QZ> Fare: we dont care
<s_r> alonzo: have you started coding your OS?
<_QZ> s_r: i dont know this for sure, but crimson just said so, but chaos has normal uk server apps
<_QZ> s_r: no not yet
* AlonzoTG/#tunes hasn't even started coding his prototype.
<AlonzoTG>  =*(
<s_r> ok, QZ, so BRiX doesn't have normal uk servers?
<_QZ> no
<Crimson> Still working hard on the ide-server
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<Crimson> had some troubles with automake/autoconf, but they are solved now.
<Crimson> s_r: it is more that we dont work so much making it compatible with old systems, but are coding our own way.
<s_r> qz how do device drivers or "servers" work in brix?
<Crimson> no idea...
<Crimson> i know how they work in chaos though... ;)
<s_r> yeah i do somewhat to
<s_r> qz tends to keep his OS shrouded in mystery
<_QZ> everything in brix works as a function on an object
<Crimson> how much of it is done?
<_QZ> there are object spaces that are like server space in chaos
<_QZ> Crimson: all of it
<s_r> well i wouldn't say "all of it" because you haven't written the server objects yet
<s_r> i suppose
02:40pm
<_QZ> i meant the kernel
<Crimson> storm is pretty much finished also...
<_QZ> does storm offer persistence?
<s_r> crimson when will i be able to use storm as i use linux?
<s_r> err chaos
<_QZ> pervasive multithreading?
<s_r> QZ: what do you mean by persistence?
<Crimson> s_r: dont really know? In some months?
<_QZ> s_r: u dont have to save ANYTHING at all in the os
<_QZ> s_r: no save feature exists in the os
<Crimson> storm treats threads just like ordinary processes, there is no differences between light and heavyweight processes, yes...
<Crimson> yet...
<Crimson> the threading code is not really finished yet, though...
<_QZ> my threading code works perfectly
<s_r> what about user level threads
<s_r> pthreads
<_QZ> so does my persistence
<s_r> QZ: fix your brix info page, it's giving me php3s
<_QZ> the top half ofthe page works
<s_r> yeah i know
<_QZ> the bottom half dont
<s_r> i sort of understand persistance now
<_QZ> persistence means that when u modify something it stays modified without u needed to save it
<s_r> but what if you don't want it to be modified?
<s_r> or saved
<s_r> nm
<s_r> i get it
<s_r> so you have a persistant store?
<_QZ> clone it
<hcf> a 7/11?
<_QZ> and brix has undo list objects that can be attached to any object that supports them
<s_r> did you try brix? does it work yet?
<_QZ> and the undo list object also persist, so if u make changes to an object today but next week u decide u liked it the old way u can undo it
<_QZ> brix booted but locked up somewhere in the kernel, didnt crash tho
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02:50pm
<Acid-Reign> hello
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<AlonzoTG> =\
<_QZ> i still havent completely my extensive mental testing of the code tho and that comes before i will begin debugging it
<hcf> _QZ: so u end up w/ undo lists for undo lists? ;)
<AlonzoTG> joinheloparter
<s_r> QZ: can you send me clementine?
<_QZ> negative
<_QZ> core didnt want anyone to have it and i got it from an anonymous source that told me not to hand it out
<s_r> why doesn't core want it given to others?
<_QZ> hcf: no the object must support them and undo lists dont support themselves :)
<_QZ> s_r: the company he works for needs to give him permission to gpl it
<_QZ> s_r: cuz he works on it at work which means they could take it away from him and sell it. and if he was giving it out then he could be fined
-:- kermit [kermit@md30.netserver1.tower.com.ar] has joined #tunes
<kermit> hello all
<_QZ> hello kermit
03:00pm
<Fare> argentina?
<kermit> yes ... (:
<Fare> winter, then!
<kermit> VERY cold ...
<Fare> south of argentina??
<kermit> middle actually
<s_r> QZ how did core implement "no-kernel" in clementine?
<_QZ> s_r: ask fare
<s_r> kermit how's life in argentina?
<s_r> <Fare> shut up and stop asking me
<s_r> :)
<_QZ> s_r: fare is the only one with source code
<kermit> hmm .. lets see ...
<Fare> s_r: just have all your services available without crossing protection barriers
<kermit> lets say thats different, where are you from ?
<s_r> PA, USA
<_QZ> s_r: eliminate protection and u have no-kernel
<Fare> cross protection barriers only when explicitly needed
<s_r> but what if untrusted apps are run?
<_QZ> Fare: if an app needs memory how does it get it?
<Fare> e.g. paging works differently depending on protection mode, so sometimes, you need change modes, anyway
<Fare> QZ: the app grabs memory without crossing modes
<_QZ> s_r: no-kernel means no-protection
<kermit> well, its VERY different from USA
<_QZ> Fare: how?
<Fare> no. It means protection by other means than hardware
<Fare> hardware protection is laughable, anyway
<s_r> Fare how does it protect apps then, what are these other means?
* kermit/#tunes agrees w/fare
<_QZ> Fare: the same kinda protection that tunes has right?
<Fare> I hoped that a beneficial side-effect of the Java hype was to open the eyes of the public on the utility of high-level languages...
<_QZ> Fare: well designed uk oses have perfect protection
<Fare> QZ: bullshit
<_QZ> u cant crash brix
<s_r> Fare so the answer is to use a highlevel interpreted code for objects?
<_QZ> i verify every input passes to the kernel by user code
<Fare> QZ: security is a high-level concept, not a low-level concept
<Fare> you just cannot implement it by low-level means
<_QZ> my kernel handles security
<Fare> s_r: why "interpreted". Ever heard of compilers?
<s_r> Fare: so how do you implement it with high level means?
<Fare> QZ: it cannot. It doesn't have enough information.
<_QZ> it does
<Fare> QZ: again, security is an application-dependent concept.
<_QZ> this is brix remember
<_QZ> not yer average uk
<Fare> bullshit
<s_r> QZ how does brix verify information coming to it?
<_QZ> s_r: it knows what the user should be sending it 
<Fare> s_r: scoping, proxies, etc, are ways to establish arbitrary protection rules in a high-level language. See W7
<_QZ> if u send it an object ID then it verified that its a valid object ID and verifies user permissions
<Fare> If your system is reflective, you can also have meta-rules that check security constraints during the execution of normal rules.
<Fare> QZ: doing it at runtime is costly an inexpressive
03:10pm
<Fare> QZ: it makes it too costly to use for fine-grained object,
<Fare> and thus forces programmers to use various different paradigms depending on object size.
<Fare> using a compiler allows to fold most checks at compile time, making the same uniform mechanism affordable regardless of object size.
<_QZ> Fare: whatever
<Fare> Hence providing the programmer with a single uniform framework, and allowing much better security with much simpler programming.
<_QZ> i allow the programmer to have complete control over his/her code
<_QZ> u dont
<kermit> has anyone here purchased a copy of the wmware stuff ???
<kermit> a liscence actually
<_QZ> hahah, my friend bought a nice sander today, got home and opened it up and there was an iron in the box
<kermit> brb
-:- SignOff kermit: #TUNES ([BX] Get your free warez from ftp://127.0.0.1!)
<Fare> not only do I allow more control, but I allow programmers to reflectively control programs that will use the services they implement!
03:20pm
<s_r> Fare what if i used a compiler-certification system,
<s_r> where each program had to be compiled by a trusted compiler
<s_r> integrated as part of the system,
<s_r> and all security checking is done by the compiler
<s_r> before run time
<s_r> and the app runs in kernel mode
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us1034.javanet.com])
<s_r> and each app has to be compiled first by a trusted compiler
<s_r> or the system compiler
<Fare> s_r: under tunes, it requires a capability to bless code into runnable status, that only super-user and trusted compilers have.
<s_r> hmmm have to think about this some more
<s_r> this is a neat idea Fare
<s_r> trusted compilers
<s_r> no kernel 
<Fare> capabilities are not bitmaps. They are access to objects in a strictly lexically scoped language.
<Fare> of course, there will still be paranoid black boxes for emulation of obsolete systems such as GNU/Linux.
03:30pm
<Fare> what's the adjective for something that encourages bug?
<Fare> bug-prone?
03:40pm
<Crimson> aargghhh!!! annoying bug wont go away... ;)
<AlonzoTG> hehe
<s_r> Fare did you ever have a stroke of genius?
03:50pm
<Fare> s_r: I had one, this evening
<s_r> what idea was born of itr
<Fare> I wrote gobs of things for my meta-novel
<Fare> I've begun a meta-novel. It's (in french) in file:~fare/fare/jdr/tm.sgml
-:- Neophyte [TheMob@c47629-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com] has joined #Tunes
<Fare> must be seeable on the web through cvsweb
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<_QZ> Fare: so a supervisor can take down tunes
<_QZ> er super-user
04:00pm
<Fare> QZ: of course, he can. But he can also create sub-super-users, with arbitrarily filtered capabilities.
<Fare> So you never run in full super-user mode,
<Fare> except when you really really need to (i.e. hacking/debugging the system)
<_QZ> a real os wont allow even a super-user to take it down
<Fare> QZ: a real os won't even allow someone to push the power button
<s_r> heh
<Fare> the os will control machine guns that will fire anyone that nears it
<Fare> it will also control atomic missiles to prevent foreign powers to even think about taking the system down
<s_r> Fare invent a term (or tell me an existing one) for the idea of a trusted compiler or superuser (or user) that certifies the validity of an app
<Fare> and it will also manage its own nuclear plant to prevent power failures
<_QZ> atx gives the os that ability
<Fare> it will require users to permanently have a monitoring device attached to their brain, that will kill them instantly if ever they try to reveal confidential system information.
<Fare> QZ: you are pathetic.
<_QZ> someone needs to port the roger wilco client to linux then we could run a server on bespin and wouldnt need irc anymore
<_QZ> Fare: just because tunes has pathetic security doesnt mean that i am pathetic
-:- ElGato [thrustit@209-68-229-82.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes
04:10pm
<Fare> s_r: I dunno. Make a bibliographical research!
<Fare> "roger wilco client"? Are we characters in Space Quest XII?
<_QZ> roger wilco is a voice chat program
<Fare> isn't Sierra Online sueing?
<_QZ> it will run in the background while u play network games and uses very little bandwidth
<_QZ> www.rogerwilco.com
<_QZ> they have a server for linux but no client
<Fare> I don't care about proprietary software, anyway
<_QZ> its not
<_QZ> its free
<_QZ> and open source
<Fare> oh
<_QZ> just like the poor french like it
<_QZ> :)
04:20pm
-:- SignOff ElGato: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ElGato[209-68-229-82.dialup.cust.tfb.com])
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<ElGato> :(
<ElGato> qz: the update says you don't have some of the system functions finished yet
<ElGato> could i help on it?
-:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (sleeping ...)
04:30pm
-:- SignOff ElGato: #TUNES (ElGato has no reason)
-:- ElGato [thrustit@209-68-229-82.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes
<s_r> elgato]
<ElGato> s_r]
<s_r> QZ hates other people looking at, let alone working on, his Brix code
<ElGato> yeah i know now
<s_r> hehe ElGato Lenguana
<ElGato> oh geez this girl i know sent me a cristian chain letter
<s_r> QZ how does Tunes have pathetic security?
<ElGato> those kinda things make life so hard
<s_r> ElGato: take away take away this ball and chain
<s_r> :)
<s_r> ElGato: ever heard of ChaOS?
<ElGato> yeah but i haven't read up on it
<s_r> chaos?
<abi> it has been said that chaos is yet another micro/nano-kernel based os at http://www.chaosdev.org or small, fast and secure, blah blah *snore*
<s_r> it's pretty cool
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04:50pm
* s_r/#tunes gone [CX]
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<tcn> hey, anyone know where there's a #forth channel?
<_QZ> #forth?
<tcn> what irc net?
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (taking this piece of shit down for a while, this session's uptime: 8 hours)
<_QZ> try em all :)
05:00pm
<tcn> like?
<tcn> all I can think of are efnet & undernet
<ElGato> uh i was reading the logs and s_r says "i think hickserv is like 13" or something like that
<ElGato> do i really sound that yound?
<ElGato> young rather
-:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (changing servers)
<ElGato> :\
05:10pm
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us721.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
<ElGato> hello hcf
<hcf> hi hick
05:20pm
<hcf> wtf
<ElGato> :)
<ElGato> someday i shall  send you something over the wonderful medium of irc
<ElGato> but you must accept boy!
<_QZ> ElGato: goto www.rogerwilco.com and get the client and then connect it to p0wer.qzx.com
<ElGato> why?
<s_r> what is rogerwilco?
<_QZ> its a voice irc client
<s_r> what is nena?
<s_r> AWESOME
<s_r> qz: i'm there
<ElGato> s_r: you'll see
<_QZ> u can run it in the background while u play games and have everyone in the game join the channel so u can talk instead of typing messages
<_QZ> but it also works as a nice irc client
05:30pm
<_QZ> we should install it on bespin
<_QZ> i must ask tril first
-:- SignOff eStormy: #TUNES (eStormy has no reason)
<s_r> qz is there a client for linux?
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> but u could port it to linux for them
<ElGato> uh qz i joined your channel
<ElGato> with rodger wilco
<ElGato> do something!
<_QZ> can u hear me?
<ElGato> yes
<ElGato> i don't have a mike
<_QZ> hold down yer transmit key to talk
<_QZ> what???
05:40pm
<ElGato> i don't have a mike
<ElGato> tell me im a hot hunk of burning love
<_QZ> s_r: do u have a mike?
<_QZ> :)
<ElGato> wtf
<ElGato> this would be good for tunes
<ElGato> it makes discussions pretty easy
<ElGato> who the fuck just said something
<ElGato> was that you qz?
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> it was ihateu
<ElGato> oh god
<ElGato> s_r?
<abi> well, s_r is working on a little thing called Virix
<_QZ> sr isnt in yet
<ElGato> who is i_hate_you?
<ElGato> i_hate_u rather
<_QZ> my brother
<ElGato> uh oh
<ElGato> he has a foul mouth :)
<_QZ> :)
<ElGato> did you know im an impressionable 14 year old?
<ElGato> that isn't a good idea
<ElGato> i might turn bad
<ElGato> talk qz!
<ElGato> i wanna hear your voice!
<_QZ> did u do that?
<ElGato> the moris code?
<_QZ> whatever it was
<ElGato> when i go over to my friends house i'll talk to you
<ElGato> he has a mike
<ElGato> now talk qz!
<_QZ> :)
<ElGato> was that you?
<_QZ> ya
<ElGato> you have a foul mouth too
05:50pm
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> what is it u think i said?
<ElGato> hey fucker
<_QZ> uhh no
<ElGato> how about i talk on irc while you talk on the mike
<ElGato> makes things easier for you
<ElGato> :)
<_QZ> i dont u can understand me
<_QZ> i just changed the quality see if u can understand me now
<ElGato> c'mon
<_QZ> what did i say?
<ElGato> tell me how cool brix is
<ElGato> over the mike
<_QZ> oh yer client left
<_QZ> u need to register so it doesnt disconnect after 15 minutes
<_QZ> its free to register and only takes a few minutes
<_QZ> rejoin
<ElGato> YES!
<_QZ> was it clear?
-:- ShitServ [thrustit@209-68-229-82.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes
<ShitServ> hahah
<ShitServ> endorse bueno labs
<_QZ> ?
-:- ShitServ is now known as ElGato2
<ElGato2> you aren't any fun qz
-:- SignOff ElGato: #TUNES (Ping timeout for ElGato[209-68-229-82.dialup.cust.tfb.com])
-:- ElGato2 is now known as ElGato
<ElGato> aren't you married and have kids qz?
06:00pm
<_QZ> uhh
<ElGato> uhh what?
<hcf> ur making him moan ElGato
<hcf> u pervert
<_QZ> hcf: join my server
<hcf> no
<_QZ> YES
<ElGato> im not a pervert
<ElGato> i just wanna hear his wife speak
<ElGato> see if he's lying or not
<hcf> ElGato: hearing a female voice wouldnt be proof of anything
<ElGato> doesn't matter
<ElGato> im just bored
<hcf> ElGato: code something
<ElGato> all i hear are little blurbs of talking
<_QZ> elgato just wants to her a female speak to him
<ElGato> hcf: i am
<_QZ> cuz he is lonely
<ElGato> hcf: im multitasking
<_QZ> :)
<ElGato> qz: indeed :(
<_QZ> :)
<ElGato> talk some more 
06:10pm
<_QZ> yer client died again
<ElGato> i got a great idea
<ElGato> use fare's name in vain :)
<_QZ> i was playing an mp3 but i think the bass was distorting the signal
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<Kaufmann> Shalom!
<_QZ> Kaufmann: do u have windows?
<Kaufmann> no, I've sliding glass doors that open to the porch. As well as a door.
<ElGato> qz: wtf is that noise?
<ElGato> oh
<_QZ> nookie
<ElGato> it's a song
<ElGato> can i run an mp3 on roger wilco?
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> but u can play it and it will feedback thru the mic
<ElGato> is there  any way i can channel it without a mic?
<_QZ> ya
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<ElGato> how?
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<_QZ> u can get a double ended cable and run it from yer speaker output to yer mic input
<ElGato> oh
<_QZ> or get a Y adapter so u can still hear sound
<ElGato> i don't have one of those i don't think
<ElGato> hmmm
<ElGato> say something funny :)
<ElGato> :(
<_QZ> was that funny enuf?
<ElGato> tell me a joke
<ElGato> that wasn't funny
<ElGato> that was racist ;(
<ElGato> J/K
<_QZ> what
<ElGato> yo quero taco bell :(
06:20pm
<_QZ> how is that racist?
<ElGato> you quero tu madre on un palo
<ElGato> nevermind
<ElGato> i was kidding
<Kaufmann> ewww
<_QZ> Kaufmann: what os are u using?
<Kaufmann> QZ, right now, MacOS
<_QZ> get into windows
<_QZ> u need to get on roger wilco
<Kaufmann> heh
<Kaufmann> that's funny
<ElGato> get your wife on roger wilco qz
<ElGato> prove to me that you're married
<hcf> _QZ: stop playing and work on ur vaporware
<_QZ> hcf: ok daddy
<ElGato> hahaha
<ElGato> hcf: im working on my vaporware
<Kaufmann> wtf is Roger Wilco?
<ElGato> hcf: can i have a cookie?
<hcf> ElGato: no!
<ElGato> :(
<_QZ> Kaufmann: its like irc with voice
<Kaufmann> QZ, nothanx
* Kaufmann/#tunes is a textroid
* hcf/#tunes ^5s Kaufmann
<ElGato> hahaha
<_QZ> Kaufmann: oh but its really fun talking about others in it
<_QZ> where the hell did s_r go? he was gonna get in
<Kaufmann> Too much bandwidth, too little benefit
<ElGato> he's uh
<ElGato> i don't know
<_QZ> Kaufmann: no it uses very little bandwidth
<ElGato> kaufmann: qz is right
<ElGato> is uses very little
<_QZ> Kaufmann: it was designed to use in the background when playing online games
<ElGato> i wish i had a mic
<s_r> hey
<s_r> back
<_QZ> hcf and kaufmann either have very VERY high pitch voices that can break glass or they are both chain smokers and have a hard time talking :)
<_QZ> s_r: get yer arse in here
<s_r> hey i want to get in on the action
<s_r> ehh
<s_r> heh
* s_r/#tunes plays nena.mp3
<ElGato> you know lojban reminds me of "1984"
<ElGato> purifying the language
<_QZ> www.rogerwilco.com then connect to p0wer.qzx.com
<ElGato> s_r: dcc cut out for some reason
<Kaufmann> LOL
<s_r> hehe this is a cool song
<s_r> in german
<Kaufmann> Besides, my English accent sux
<ElGato> YES
06:30pm
<_QZ> Kaufmann: so
<ElGato> oh c'mon kaufmann
<_QZ> my english accent sucks too
<s_r> ah the song cut out
<ElGato> when i go to my friends i'll talk
<Kaufmann> QZ, where are you?
<s_r> i'm going to play some mp3s for all you
<_QZ> Kaufmann: utah
<s_r> this is going to be S_R disco hour
<ElGato> you only got 34% of it s_r
<ElGato> german is a beautiful language
<s_r> deutsche ist sehr gut
<_QZ> ElGato: im gonna kill the server real quick to make it permanent
<ElGato> ja
<ElGato> sehr gut
<ElGato> ok
<_QZ> get out
<ElGato> i'll register
<ElGato> or mabye mabye
<s_r> great
<s_r> just great
<s_r> this crappy WD hard drive just got a bad sector in one of my mp3s
<s_r> 3.1 gig WD harddrive for $10 it's a piece of junk
<s_r> anyone want it?
<_QZ> 4.3gig quantum fireball udma $80 brand new
<s_r> qz: where?
<_QZ> i have 9 of them
<s_r> QZ: could you sell me a drive <2.1 gig (ide)?
<_QZ> i have a 1.3gig toshiba notebook drive with desktop adapter
<_QZ> its on its last leg, $30
<ElGato> well i got a 8.3"...oh wait nevermind
<s_r> qz what kind of music do you like?
<s_r> play some of your mp3s
<_QZ> i am playing some of my mp3
<_QZ> i like alternative
<ElGato> oh
<ElGato> so you swing that way
<ElGato> uh huh
<ElGato> i've figured you out ;)
06:40pm
<ElGato> um i've never noticed this but fare is really doing most of the work on tunes
<_QZ> 8.4gig quantum for $100
<_QZ> hardly used
<_QZ> hahaha
<_QZ> no he isnt
<ElGato> all but 1 subproject isn't run by him
<_QZ> hmm, alonzo is moving to linux
<_QZ> "-Currently the prototype will run under LiNuKs. Therefore I need or need to
<_QZ> become an expert in LiNuKs programming."
<ElGato> bout damn time
<s_r> qz i can't connect to p0wer
<hcf> ElGato: being labeled the "maintainer" of a subproject doesnt mean much
<s_r> qz where's alonzo's page?
<_QZ> s_r: i just started the server
<_QZ> try again
<ElGato> hcf: oh
<ElGato> hcf: seem slike the hll and lll are the only projects with any real progress
<hcf> ElGato: some depend too much on others to progress right now
<s_r> who's saying "talk now you fag"
<ElGato> hcf: true
<ElGato> qz
<ElGato> he
<ElGato> he's a gay basher
<_QZ> hehe
<_QZ> s_r: talk 
<s_r> QZ is there a linux client
<_QZ> no
06:50pm
<s_r> i can't! my stupid mic won't record 
<s_r> i need to test it some more
<ElGato> qz: i oughta wash your mouth out with soup,  you bigot
<s_r> hahaha
<_QZ> goto the volume properties in windows
<ElGato> soup i tell you!
<s_r> <ElGato> <insert comment here> boy!
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<ElGato> and you're gonna like it
<ElGato> hahaha
<ElGato> s_r: quiet boy
<_QZ> make sure yer mic is set halfway and the mute is on
<s_r> mute?
<_QZ> s_r: what sound card?
<ElGato> alonzo: do you have a mic?
<s_r> why would i want to mute it?
<_QZ> s_r: dont worry
<_QZ> s-: trust me
<AlonzoTG> yes me have mik
<_QZ> AlonzoTG: join in
<ElGato> get rodger wilco at rodgerwilco.com
<AlonzoTG> windoze 3.11
<_QZ> s_r: did yer mic work in the test?
<AlonzoTG> eeek
<s_r> i can record with the mic
<AlonzoTG> the janitor with a disintigrator...
<AlonzoTG> =\
<s_r> in windows recorder
<_QZ> s_r: if so u need to hold down the F12 key or whatever key u picked while talking, let it go when yer done
<AlonzoTG> wanme to rekord????
<ElGato> alonzo: ok
<ElGato> say "qz is a hot stud f***** and send it to me"
<ElGato> er
<ElGato> "qz is a hot stud f*****" and send it to me
<ElGato> s_r: i think he means it
<s_r> huh?
<s_r> did you hear me say "hmmmm"?
<_QZ> no
<ElGato> talk
<s_r> dammit
<_QZ> did u hold the F12 key down while talking?
<s_r> yes
<_QZ> goto the adjust tab
<_QZ> and jack the mic volume all the way up
* AlonzoTG/#tunes is phaast
<_QZ> well i got a click from someone
<_QZ> s_r: when u finally start talking, talk slow
<_QZ> and clear
<s_r> why?
<s_r> why are you so insistent
<_QZ> and it helps if u set it for "fast modem" or higher instead of "slow modem"
<s_r> heh
<s_r> i pressed F12 and said "hmmm" 
<s_r> i'll do it again
<ElGato> heh
<AlonzoTG> sr: did me rekording werk?
<_QZ> see elgato heard me say hmmm
<ElGato> say the "bueno labs is l33t and it is my daddy"
<ElGato> hey!
07:00pm
<s_r> did you hear me say "hmmmm"?
<_QZ> s_r: no
<ElGato> say "BRiX is dumb and just as bad as windows"
<s_r> it just won't work
<s_r> say something QZ
<s_r> slow and clear
<s_r> haha
<ElGato> :(
<s_r> "and tunes sucks"
<s_r> say something about BuenOS
<ElGato> mabye tril should cancel QZ's account on bespin
<ElGato> qz: you just wait wehni get ahold of a mic
<_QZ> ElGato: http://www.tunes.org/~qz
<s_r> ahahhahah
<ElGato> hey!
<s_r> elgato's office is the dumpster behind taco bell
<ElGato> bueno labs is based in san diego joto
<s_r> is it just the sound distortion? QZ sounds like a 15-year old
<_QZ> i can hear someone
<ElGato> i know
<_QZ> was that s_r?
<s_r> who was that?
<_QZ> nevermind
<s_r> who is I HATE U?
<_QZ> some fa
<_QZ> fag
<ElGato> isn't it your brother qz?
<_QZ> hmm s_r's client says receive only
<_QZ> s_r: turn on half-duplex
<_QZ> brb
<s_r> well i have to look at the dveice manager
07:10pm
<_QZ> btw, i am 15
<_QZ> er 16
<ElGato> hahaha qz you told me you were 25 you lying bastard
<_QZ> that was so ppl would take me seriously
* ElGato/#tunes high fives qz
<_QZ> ElGato: did u see my car?
<ElGato> no
<_QZ> www.qzx.com/sunfire
<ElGato> hell people never take me seriously
<s_r> but the picture on your website (www.qzx.com) looks like you're fucking 40
<ElGato> i just hope my actions will help them to respect me
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Read error to AlonzoTG[216-164-229-119.s373.tnt8.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com]: No route to host)
<hcf> ElGato: hasnt worked so far
-:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-225-17.s271.tnt6.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes
<ElGato> hcf: eat a dick
<_QZ> HAHAH
<s_r> heh
<s_r> qz i have a sound blaster 16
<ElGato> i think qz just took pictures of his dad and put it up on his webpage
<_QZ> ya thats what i did
<s_r> seriously, who's pictures are those?
<_QZ> they are pictures of my car
<ElGato> damn qz you richy richy bastard
<ElGato> you got a lot of computers
<_QZ> oh that list is not current
<_QZ> as soon as i shut down p0wer it will become a dual 550mhz celeron box and defiant will be a single 464mhz celeron
<s_r> celery
<s_r> qz you like celery?
<_QZ> ys i do
<_QZ> not the food tho
<s_r> somebody say something
<ElGato> my only set back is my mom won't drive me to san diego to buy my new computer
<_QZ> ElGato: get a car like mine :)
<ElGato> my mom said "no car till you're 18" :(
* s_r/#tunes just pictures ElGato begging before mommy
<ElGato> :(
<s_r> ElGato: get some computer shit locally
<ElGato> s_r: that isn't funny
<ElGato> san diego is the localist for anything good
07:20pm
<ElGato> my town is pretty damn small
<s_r>       [
<s_r>         IRC Nick: _QZ (on OpenProjects Network)
<s_r>                                                  ]
<s_r>       [
<s_r>         Age: 25
<s_r>                                                  ]
<_QZ> s_r: ya i lied there so ppl think im older and will respect brix
<s_r> dammit i want this mic to work
<s_r> it must be my sound card
<s_r> sound blaster 16
<_QZ> s_r: no one gives a damn if a 16 year old is making an os
<_QZ> sb16 works sometimes
<s_r> qz: how do you explain those pictures of the 30 year old on your web site :P
<_QZ> thats what the rogerwilco page says
<ElGato> qz: nobody does until you've finished your os
<ElGato> then they give a damn
<s_r> elgato's right
<_QZ> ElGato: well tell that to the 100+ ppl that have emailed me saying how great they think brix is going to be and wanted to use it
<s_r> qz: don't let them down
<ElGato> i think qz is having a case of hcf pms
<s_r> :)
<_QZ> heh
<s_r> *sigh*
<s_r> i thought he knew better
<ElGato> i know s_r
<ElGato> damnit s_r
<s_r> heeh now watch him version me
<_QZ> that picture of me does not look 40
<ElGato> unless i can get down to san diego i can't get build my linux box
<s_r> use OpenBSD
<_QZ> for 1 they are bad shots that i took of myself
<s_r> it must suck to be chained to a windows box
<s_r> qz you look like an old man
<_QZ> IRL i look extremely young
<ElGato> s_r: the only bsd i'll use is freebsd babee
<s_r> hahah elgato
<s_r> elgato do you still go to #asm
<ElGato> no
<ElGato> they're dumb (most of them)
<s_r> elgato when you get your new box
<s_r> you're going to get into the hacking scene right?
<ElGato> well that's a s_r tough question
* s_r/#tunes feels insulted
<ElGato> you see i've had the money since december
<ElGato> but my family is so damn busy we have no time to buy the parts
<ElGato> in a short period of time (relitively) it'll be december again
<s_r> <tschuS> So.. I'm hella frugal with space
<s_r> order them online
<_QZ> ElGato: just think, u can a computer that is many times faster than what u planned to get last december :)
<s_r> i don't need a fast computer
<s_r> i'm happy with a pentium
<ElGato> qz: my 486 is better than your 486
<_QZ> im happy with my dual 550's :)
<s_r> QZ: were you ever on AOL?
<_QZ> uhh i refuse to answer that question
<ElGato> s_r: i think that says it
<s_r> i was on aol
<s_r> aol ruled
<s_r> all i ever did was get warez
07:30pm
<s_r> and you could get warez in your mailbox
<s_r> you didn't have to download it immediately
<s_r> so people were more inclined to share
<ElGato> warez is dumb
<s_r> warez rules
<ElGato> free software eliminated the need for warez
<s_r> yeah but it's fun to get games sometimes
<s_r> free software is superior to warez though
<ElGato> warez was cool in the 80's
<s_r> yeah
<s_r> ElGato were you in the computer scene in the 80s?
<ElGato> little virii and people just fighting proprietary evils
<_QZ> arent u both like 13?
<ElGato> uhhh no
<ElGato> im 14
<ElGato> in 1989 i was 4
<_QZ> s_r: did u self half duplex in rogerwilco?
<s_r> i gave up on roger
<ElGato> yeah i was in the warez scene in the 80's
<s_r> i'm not 13
<_QZ> 12?
<s_r> hah
<ElGato> i was spreading games for free in my dipers
<s_r> QZ when you call a system call
<_QZ> did u see my finger info?
<s_r> you push the system call id # on the stack
<ElGato> how come this dcc is going so slow
<_QZ> im gonna go play some starcraft
<s_r> is the system call id # a 32-bit word, 
<s_r> or a byte?
<abi> a byte is always byte-aligned, dude!
<ElGato> heh
<ElGato> abi: good one
<ElGato> asm humor
<ElGato> gotta love it
<_QZ> s_r: u can only push 32bit values
<s_r> in pmode, you can only push 32-bit values?
<s_r> anywhere on the stack?
<_QZ> ya]
<s_r> #$@#@%
<s_r> crazy
<ElGato> !!!
<_QZ> well unless u are using 16bit stacks
<ElGato> s_r: what are you on a 14.4?
<s_r> 28.8
<s_r> i have no idea why it's slow
<ElGato> this dcc is taking forever
<ElGato> oh
<ElGato> i have a 56.6
<s_r> well at least i didn't sell my soul to m$
<s_r> =)
<ElGato> nor did i
<ElGato> it ain't my computer biznitch
<s_r> hehe
-:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Free Reflective Computing System <http://www.tunes.org> || slim <http://birch.eecs.lehigh.edu/slim/> || chaos <http://www.chaosdev.org> || rkt <http://www.mibsoftware.com/reuse/index.html>
<ElGato> im gonna reg bueno.org
<ElGato> nevermind
<s_r> qz: is bueno labs a dumpster behind taco bell?
<s_r> bueno-labs.com
07:40pm
<ElGato> yeah
<hcf> why .com?
<ElGato> i want bueno.com
<s_r> elgato: ask qz for bueno-labs.qzx.com
<s_r> :)
<ElGato> hell no
<ElGato> i don't want to be associated with qz
<s_r> ElGato: do you know asm well?
<ElGato> not WELL
<ElGato> but yes i know asm
<ElGato> why do you ask
<ElGato> ?
<s_r> you need a strong grounding in asm before you code an OS or a compiler
<ElGato> well yes and no
<ElGato> some things NEED to be done in asm
<ElGato> however
<ElGato> for a compiler you don't NEED to know asm
<s_r> i sent you source code to a really cool demo
<ElGato> you might want to have a good machine code reference though ;)
<s_r> ElGato how far are you in Fallout II?
<ElGato> im in Broken Hills killing some ants
<s_r> what items do you have
<s_r> do you have any multiplayer games?
<ElGato> uh i have a lot and i don't want to write them all down just to tell you
<ElGato> i had half-life but my brother deleted it
<ElGato> anyone seen core?
07:50pm
<s_r> i want to talk to core about his OS
<hcf> core hasnt been on for a while
<AlonzoTG> om
<ElGato> i want to talk to fare
<ElGato> WAKEUP FARE
<hcf> he's sent a couple of msgs to the xcom list
<s_r> hcf bring back core
<ElGato> fare is the only person that keeps us on track on tunes
<hcf> s_r: how do u presume i do that?
<s_r> use your summoning powers
<hcf> logs say "1999.0606:<core> see you later :)"
<ElGato> :(
<ElGato> the logs should be rm'd
<hcf> ElGato: u should be rm'd
<hcf> s_r: u can always email core w/ ur questions
<ElGato> today i went to a gun show where i saw a lady who had a mole 1" in diameter and it stuck out 1/3".  And you know what?  It reminded me of hcf.
<hcf> ElGato: im glad it did
<ElGato> hehehe "-HCF is an infantile disease.  A measile on humanity." HickServ
08:00pm
<Kaufmann> LOL
<ElGato> s_r: doesn't that song own?
<ElGato> it just sounds like she says "and spock my nose is expensive" in german
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :))
08:10pm
<s_r> elgato i have a question
<ElGato> yes?
<s_r> if i put 0x1000abcd into eax
<s_r> well the compiler would make it 0xdcba0001 so that it was 0x1000abcd in the register
<s_r> so it's 0x1000abcd in the register
<s_r> and i do "push eax"
<s_r> in the memory on the stack
<s_r> will it appear as 0xdcba0001
<s_r> ?
<s_r> just as it did in the instruction the compiler generated?
<ElGato> first of all
* s_r/#tunes is listening to Nena-99 LuftBalloons
* s_r/#tunes is also reading sources
08:20pm
-:- SignOff ElGato: #TUNES (Leaving)
<Kaufmann> Bye all
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES ("Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." - Albert Einstein.)
08:30pm
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
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<JestersHi> I am completely serious, this chat format is better than AOL's
<JestersHi> Anyone here know where a CD burner with a speed of at least 4x can be purchased for under $150
11:50pm
-:- SignOff JestersHi: #TUNES (Leaving)
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0718
IRC log ended Sun Jul 18 00:00:01 1999